# MURDERED: Nori Amaya - **Show:** Crime Junkie - **Published:** 19 Oct 2026 - **Source:** https://crimejunkiepodcast.com/ - **Transcript:** https://podcasts.opennash.com/shows/crime-junkie/murdered-nori-amaya-bf22de/ - **Provider:** OpenNash Podcasts (machine-generated) ## In brief The 2009 murder of Washington, D.C. restaurateur Nori Amaya looks solvable on paper. There is surveillance footage, a clear timeline of her last night, and an unidentified male DNA profile. Ashley Flowers argues it has stayed unsolved because Halloween masks defeated the cameras and the killer took evidence with him. She also argues the best remaining leads are a missing red camera, an untested DNA sample and someone's silence. The tension is between a personal crime and an anonymous one. Detective Tony Patterson read the lack of forced entry as a sign Nori knew her killer, and he never shook his doubts about her friend David. But Nori often left her door unlocked, the building holds more than 1,100 units, and every named suspect's DNA was excluded. The case now depends on genetic genealogy and on a tip. ## Key insights 1. **Halloween masks defeated a heavily surveilled building** The Woodner had a staffed front desk, key cards and at least six lobby cameras. But everyone was in costume that weekend, and neither Nori's floor nor some entrances near the parking areas had cameras, so the killer was likely never identifiable on film. 2. **The killer showed some forensic awareness** Nori's long fingernails had been cut down and no clippings were left in the apartment. No semen was found and the ligature was never recovered. Flowers thinks the killer knew about as much as a CSI viewer, since unidentified male touch DNA was still collected. 3. **Every named person of interest was excluded by DNA** Gustavo, his wife, his club employee, Nori's dance partner, David, David's friend Eric and the exterminator were all tested and none matched. Police even flew to Argentina and took the employee's glass and spoon to get his DNA, so the killer is probably someone not yet identified. 4. **A missing red camera may hold the key** Nori had a small red digital camera at the clubs that night, and police never found it. It might have held photos of the killer, an embarrassing secret, or been taken as a trophy. It could also have been left in the cab, as Nori's phone was. 5. **Remaining DNA could enable genetic genealogy** The profile is in CODIS, the national DNA database, with no match. Some sample was left for investigative genetic genealogy, which finds relatives through public DNA databases. Patterson sent it to Parabon NanoLabs before retiring in 2017, but he doesn't know what happened afterward. ## Questions this episode answers ### Who was Nori Amaya and what happened to her? Nori Amaya was a 38-year-old co-owner of a D.C. Italian restaurant and a well-known salsa dancer. She went out on Halloween night 2009, took a cab home alone, and was found strangled in her bed on Monday, November 2. ### Why couldn't police just identify the killer from the security cameras? It was Halloween, so most people in the building and the clubs were in masks, wigs and costumes. Ashley Flowers also says Nori's floor had no cameras and some entrances near the parking areas weren't covered. ### What is touch DNA and why hasn't it solved the case? Touch DNA is DNA left on a surface or on skin through contact. Police have an unidentified male profile from Nori's body and it is in the national database CODIS, but no one in the system matches it. ### Why does the missing camera matter? Nori carried a small red digital camera that night and it was never found. It might have captured the killer's image, or some other photo someone wanted hidden, so Flowers thinks its disappearance may be the killer's biggest mistake. ### Is there any realistic way this case gets solved now? Flowers says a leftover DNA sample could be used for genetic genealogy, which finds a suspect through relatives' DNA. She also asks anyone who was at the clubs or in the Woodner building in 2009 to come forward, because Nori's siblings believe someone in her world knows more. ## Facts - **Ashley Flowers** [0:01:33]: "Carlos is the chef and co-owner of a popular Italian restaurant in Washington, D. C. which he runs with his sister." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:03:31]: "Nori had apparently left her phone in a cab that she took home that night." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:07:15]: "The detective who is assigned to the case is Tony Patterson." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:07:15]: "I actually don't know if we could have done it without him because D C Metro Police Department denied our FOIA." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:08:11]: "It was a one eighth inch ligature of some kind that ultimately was used to strangle and kill her." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:09:18]: "And Britt, the killer had to have taken the fingernails with them because there weren't any in her apartment." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:10:27]: "During the autopsy, unidentified male DNA was collected from two areas of Nori's body" - **Ashley Flowers** [0:11:34]: "even though this sample was good enough to be put into CODIS, there were no matches in the system." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:12:05]: "It is twelve floors and more than 1,100 units." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:15:43]: "Nori's family tells Detective Patterson that she had a small red digital camera that she took everywhere." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:16:35]: "She knows basically every salsa club in D. C. and people even called her the Salsa Queen." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:17:13]: "Gustavo didn't respond to our outreach, so his perspective comes from a 2010 interview that he gave to the Washington Post about Nori's murder." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:17:45]: "Nori's family came to the U. S. from El Salvador when she was younger, and Gustavo came to D. C. from Argentina" - **Ashley Flowers** [0:18:12]: "He was married, and Nori only found out after she was already in deep." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:19:14]: "Carlos said that about two weeks before Nori's murder, the main phone rang at their restaurant." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:21:04]: "Her first stop was Gustavo's club, the Rumba Cafe." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:23:09]: "So within fifteen minutes of being there, he walked her outside, helped her into a cab back to her apartment and watched her leave." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:28:06]: "Detective Patterson and his partner, they fly down to Argentina with two FBI agents." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:28:36]: "No match to Gustavo, no match to the wife, and no match to the employee." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:28:58]: "investigators also find out, by the way, that that funeral in Argentina was legit." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:47:01]: "He said the guy never actually went into the bedroom. He had no idea that she was in there." - **Ashley Flowers** [0:52:30]: "Patterson remembers personally collecting DNA from around ten people, and later reporting says more than twenty people were eventually tested." ## Transcript **[0:00:00] Ad read:** When you're out in nature, you learn to trust your instincts, you pay attention to the trail, your surroundings, and you stay alert to protect yourself from harm. But what if the biggest threat isn't the environment at all? On Park Predators, host Delia D'Ambra explores true crime cases that happen in national parks and remote wildernesses, the places we usually think of as safe and peaceful. Each episode reveals what happened and how much more there is beneath the surface. **[0:00:27] Ad read:** Listen to Park Predators now wherever you get your podcasts. Hi Crime Junkies, I'm your host, Ashley Flowers. **[0:00:33] Brit Prawat:** And I'm Britt. **[0:00:33] Ad read:** And the story I have for you today about the 2009 murder of a Washington, D. C. salsa queen is one that haunts me. At first, investigators thought this might be an easy case to close. They have surveillance footage, a clear recounting of the victim's final steps, but there is one huge problem. It was Halloween. The clubs were packed and the streets were full of people in masks and costumes, so even **[0:01:00] Ashley Flowers:** on camera, police can't always tell who they're looking at. Was that a coincidence, or was it part of a careful plan to hide in plain sight? It seems like this killer knew what he was doing. He took things from the crime scene that might have led back to him, but in doing so, he actually might have left the biggest clue. This is something that has never been reported before, and me and our reporting team went deep on this one and what this clue might mean. **[0:01:33] Ashley Flowers:** And we think we could be just one tip away from solving this one. So crime junkies, listen close and make sure you share this episode with a friend, especially any friends that you have in the DC. area. This is the story of Nori Amaya. Our story begins first thing Monday morning, November second 2009. Carlos Amaya is getting to work to begin a week that is already off to a rough start. So Carlos is the chef and co-owner of a popular Italian restaurant in Washington, D. **[0:02:37] Ashley Flowers:** C. which he runs with his sister. And even though he just hosted this big private party the night before, he is at the restaurant bright and early on just a couple of hours of sleep to fire up the wood burning oven and get started on a massive catering order for something like 170 people. But when he calls the client to let them know that he's gonna be there with the order around ten a m, the client is like, No No. **[0:02:58] Ashley Flowers:** Your sister never confirmed the order, so we tried to call her and tell her that it was canceled. **[0:03:04] Brit Prawat:** Oh, I'd be so pissed at my sister. **[0:03:06] Ashley Flowers:** Carlos was his thirty eight year old sister, Nori Amaya, is the other half to the business. He's the chef, she works like front of house on the customer side of things. It's like a good arrangement because she's the people person of the two siblings, so normally it works out. But something has been up with her the last couple of days. The day before, Nori didn't show up to help with the private party like she was supposed to. **[0:03:31] Ashley Flowers:** Carlos kinda blew that one off because he knows that she had been going through a breakup and he was trying to, like, cut her a little bit of slack. But now they're like losing business and he is over it. He wants to call her and, like, read her the riot act. The problem is he can't because her phone is with him. You see, two nights ago, what would have been Saturday, that was Halloween, and Nori had apparently left her phone in a cab that she took home that night. **[0:03:58] Ashley Flowers:** Or technically, it would have been, like, early Sunday morning. The cabbie found the phone and at some point called Nori's mom, who sent Carlos to go meet the cabbie and pick it up. **[0:04:07] Brit Prawat:** Okay, so why is Carlos still holding onto it, though? **[0:04:10] Ashley Flowers:** Well, cause he thought he was gonna be seeing her at work that same day. He was just gonna, like, give it to her then, but she didn't show. And remember, it's like 2009. Like we actually, at that time, all knew how to live without our phones for a day back then, especially Nori, because apparently she was prone to losing her phone, maybe more than most. So, unable to call her, Carlos decides to go by Nori's apartment because he's got the time now that he doesn't have to, like, do this, you know, big 170 person catering order. **[0:04:37] Ashley Flowers:** So when he gets to her complex, like ten minutes away, he signs in at the front desk before going to her unit on the eleventh floor. He knocks, he checks the door, but it's locked, so he crouches down and even looks through the mail slot. And he can see inside, but the lights are off, so the apartment is completely dark. And so Carlos is thinking, like, Okay, you know what? Nori is clearly going through it with this breakup. **[0:05:00] Ashley Flowers:** She's probably still asleep, or maybe she just doesn't wanna talk to anyone right now. So he decides to give her a little bit more space. If she's not at the restaurant by the dinner shift, then he'll take more drastic measures to, like, shake her out of it. And guess what? **[0:05:17] Brit Prawat:** She doesn't show up. **[0:05:18] Ashley Flowers:** By closing time on Monday, Carlos's frustration is turning into fear. He has made some calls. Nobody in their family, including their mom, who normally talks to Nori daily, has heard from her. So that night, Carlos and his younger sister Liz, they go to Nori's building together, and they're not just knocking at this point. They told us this time they asked the security guard to unlock Nori's door, and it's the guard who leads the way into her living room. **[0:05:45] Ashley Flowers:** Everything is still dark, except for a bathroom light that's on, so Liz flips on the light switch. They see Nori's Halloween costume laying on the couch, this like black dress and a feathered Venetian style mask, but no Nori, and nothing seems to be out of place. So Carlos calls out to her, like to give her the chance to come out or get decent before he just, like, opens her bedroom door. Now the room is dark when he finally goes in, but he can tell that Nori is in her bed, partially covered by a comforter, and then the rest happens quickly. **[0:06:20] Ashley Flowers:** He turns on the light, he sees Nori's hair and one of her hands peeking out from under the covers. And when he gets closer, he notices marks around her neck. So Carlos pulls the comforter back and his sister is blue. She's only in her black underwear, so he can see all of the bruises all over her body. But there's something in him, like he cannot stop calling out her name, like begging her to just like, get up, even though, like, looking at her, you It's like and I would know that's not computing for not. **[0:06:48] Ashley Flowers:** He's him. Yeah, in shock. He's just like desperate to get some kind of reaction out of her. So he even, like, hits her, trying to prove to himself that what he's seeing isn't real, because his mind cannot accept that she's gone. And that's when Liz walks into the room and she reaches out to touch Nori, but her skin is so cold that Liz literally jumps back. She and Carlos cling to each other and just like drop to the floor while the security guard calls nine one one. **[0:07:15] Ashley Flowers:** By nine eleven p. m. the apartment is full of D C Metro police officers. The detective who is assigned to the case is Tony Patterson. Now, lucky for us, Detective Patterson is retired now, so he was able to talk to us for this episode. I actually don't know if we could have done it without him because D C Metro Police Department denied our FOIA. And while the new MPD detective assigned to the case did talk to us, like, he didn't go into much depth with us. **[0:07:41] Ashley Flowers:** Still, he gave us some information, verified some details, so, like, grateful, but much of what we've come to learn about this case will be from Detective Patterson's memory. But going back to that night inside Nori's apartment, by that point, Detective Patterson's been with MPD for decades. A lot of that time was spent in homicide, so he knows what he's looking for when he gets onto a homicide scene. And here, I mean, we've got locked door, no signs of forced entry, the apartment isn't ransacked. **[0:08:11] Ashley Flowers:** In fact, nothing valuable seems to be missing. Nori's purse is still on the couch, so this wasn't a robbery gone wrong. This looks like somebody came here for Nori, with the goal of either sexually assaulting her, killing her, or both. It was a one eighth inch ligature of some kind that ultimately was used to strangle and kill her. But the autopsy shows that she fought back. There were injuries around her mouth and her chin, including a laceration inside her lower lip. **[0:08:44] Ashley Flowers:** There is a hemorrhage under the back of her scalp, bruising across her upper right chest and both breasts, and lots of bruises and abrasions on her arms, right hand and right leg. Detective Patterson remembers that bruising on her arms. It made him think that someone may have, like, pinned her down on the bed while she fought back. And there's also lacerations and bruising to Nori's genital area. And one of the few details we did get from the new investigator is that they believe Nori was sexually assaulted. **[0:09:18] Ashley Flowers:** But whoever assaulted and strangled her was calculated and at least had a basic understanding of forensics because there was no semen found during the autopsy and no nail clippings that produced anything useful. Because the fingernails that Nori always kept long had been cut all the way down. And Britt, the killer had to have taken the fingernails with them because there weren't any in her apartment. **[0:09:49] Brit Prawat:** I mean, I have so many questions, but like, did the killer bring their own clippers? Did they have to use, like, what was their hers? **[0:09:57] Ashley Flowers:** The current detective told us that they don't know what her nails were cut with. They also don't know what she was strangled with. Like, it could have been a cord of some kind. I know they tested a USB cord in her room, but that didn't have any of her DNA on it. So whatever that was, he may have brought it or found it, but either way, he probably took that with him too. **[0:10:18] Brit Prawat:** and with all this, like caution, this person either watches, like, a lot of CSI, or they've done this before. **[0:10:27] Ashley Flowers:** I mean, my own opinion, I don't think they were some kind of like brilliant mastermind. Like, I think they knew about as much as the general public, like you're saying from like, CSI or something. Like, they're gonna know that police get DNA from semen from nail clippings, like the end. Otherwise, I think this killer would have taken more precautions because the killer didn't get rid of all of the physical evidence. During the autopsy, unidentified male DNA was collected from two areas of Nori's body, and I know they got touch DNA from either her chest or her breast area. **[0:10:59] Brit Prawat:** like actual touch DNA, or could it have come from, like, saliva? **[0:11:03] Ashley Flowers:** So the autopsy report doesn't show any of the results from the testing, it just shows me what areas they swabbed. They should be able to tell if saliva was present or not. I've seen that in other cases. No one from MPD could or would provide us the details. They just said that it was touch DNA. But Carlos is pretty dialed into the investigation, Nori's brother, and he said that he remembers being told that it was like true touch DNA, like from skin to skin, like contact kind of thing. **[0:11:34] Ashley Flowers:** Now, one would assume that would be like a hand, but if it was, that's wild to me because the police didn't find any fingerprints on her body or apartment that they believe were from the killer. But, you know, who needs prints when you have their DNA, right? Well, it's only good if we can find someone to compare it to. Because even though this sample was good enough to be put into CODIS, there were no matches in the system. **[0:12:05] Ashley Flowers:** So who could have been in Nori's apartment and when? The autopsy doesn't include a time of death window, so that's one of the first mysteries that Detective Patterson has to solve. Like, before you can ever ask somebody for an alibi, you need to know, like, what your critical window of time is in the investigation. Well, lucky for him, Nori's apartment building has decent security. It is one of the biggest apartment complexes in D. C. It is twelve floors and more than 1,100 units. **[0:12:34] Brit Prawat:** that's basically a small city. **[0:12:35] Ashley Flowers:** Yeah, so if you live there, you need a key card to swipe into the main entrances. The front desk is staffed around the clock and visitors are supposed to sign in. There are also at least six cameras in the lobby and more cameras around the building and garage. So, of course, Detective Patterson thinks that all of that surveillance is gonna just hand him Nori's killer on a silver platter. He goes right to the night of Halloween when he's looking at this footage. **[0:13:02] Ashley Flowers:** That is the last time that anyone says they saw or spoke to Nori. That's the night that she left her phone in the cab. So he scrubs through Saturday into the early morning hours of Sunday, and he spots her coming into the building alone around two thirty a. m. They know it's her because she's got on a black dress and she's holding the mask that they found on her couch. But guess what? **[0:13:28] Brit Prawat:** it's Halloween and everyone is wearing costumes, **[0:13:31] Ashley Flowers:** Everyone? All weekend, people are coming and going in masks and wigs and costumes. So even if someone came through the front and was captured, we might not even have their face, and that's if they came through the front. Carlos told us at the time there were other ways to get into the building, like near the parking areas that weren't covered by cameras at all, and Nori's floor didn't have any cameras either. So is the killer on film? **[0:14:02] Ashley Flowers:** I think the answer is yes and no. No, they're probably not showing their face in the building security footage, but yes, I think their image could have been captured on film actually by Nori herself. Because as the police start working backwards, tracing Nori's movements before she got to her apartment building, they realize that she had something else with her that night. A small red digital camera, but they never found a small red digital camera anywhere in her apartment. **[0:14:41] Ashley Flowers:** Which means the killer may have taken something from Nori after all. One of the simplest, most powerful ways to build wealth is something that most people overlook actually earning interest on your savings. But here's the problem most banks pay you next to nothing, a fraction of a percent. Your money just sits there doing nothing for you. That's where today's sponsor, SoFi, comes in, the everything app for smarter money. With SoFi checking and savings, you can track your spending and save towards your goals. **[0:15:14] Ashley Flowers:** And with eligible direct deposit, you can actually earn nine times the national average savings rate. Terms apply. You'll even get paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Pay no account fees, earn a cash bonus, and you can access additional FDIC insurance up to 3 million on your deposits through a network of participating banks. Plus, you can manage your finances all from one app. Whatever your needs are, SoFi is there to help you get smarter with your money. **[0:15:43] Ashley Flowers:** Open your SoFi checking and savings account today. Head to SoFi dot com slash CJ Bank to get started. SoFi Checking and Savings is offered through SoFi Bank, N A. member FDIC. Nori's family tells Detective Patterson that she had a small red digital camera that she took everywhere. **[0:16:07] Brit Prawat:** I mean, it's 2009. We all did. **[0:16:09] Ashley Flowers:** My little Sony Cyber shot went everywhere with me, Ugh, mine was and blue. and that is actually what her family thinks they remember her having a red Sony Cyber shot. Detective Patterson told us that he knows she had it out with her that night. He found video proof of it because he traced her movements that night and he found out that she had spent Halloween at a club, like salsa dancing with friends. And salsa dancing was like her big thing. **[0:16:35] Ashley Flowers:** It became part of her recovery after she went through some health issues when she was younger, and she got so good at it that she even competed locally. She knows basically every salsa club in D. C. and people even called her the Salsa Queen. Now, this club that she was at, police say there were no standout incidents that happened while she was out dancing, no big fights or anything that gets like caught on surveillance cameras that they look at. **[0:16:58] Ashley Flowers:** But there was drama. So remember how I said that Nori was going through a breakup? So the club was owned by the guy she was breaking up with. **[0:17:10] Brit Prawat:** breaking is active, so she was ending things. **[0:17:13] Ashley Flowers:** Well, yes, kind of more complicated than that, which I'll get into, but she was planning to end it that night. So let me give you a little bit of backstory and then I'm gonna jump back into the timeline. Detective Patterson learns from Nori's family and friends that for a few months before she was murdered, she was involved with the club's owner, this guy named Gustavo. Gustavo didn't respond to our outreach, so his perspective comes from a 2010 interview that he gave to the Washington Post about Nori's murder. **[0:17:45] Ashley Flowers:** But he said that he and Nori had a lot in common. I mean, both were immigrants from Latin America who had made, like, the D. C. area home. Nori's family came to the U. S. from El Salvador when she was younger, and Gustavo came to D. C. from Argentina, and both had built their lives around the restaurant business. Nori took over the Italian restaurant with Carlos, and Gustavo opened his Latin American club. So they both knew what it was like to build something of their own here. **[0:18:12] Ashley Flowers:** The same long hours, the same stressors, same business problems, and the same passion. And he said they were exactly alike. But there was a major part of Gustavo's life that Nori didn't know about when they first started seeing each other. He was married, and Nori only found out after she was already in deep. People close to Nori told us that after Nori confronted Gustavo, he told her that the marriage was basically over, but getting divorced could cost him everything the restaurant, his money, all of it. **[0:18:47] Ashley Flowers:** So he apparently told her that, like, you know him and his wife being together, that was just like a financial arrangement. Now, whether that was true or not, Nori kept seeing Gustavo. But Carlos says that over time, it was clear to her that Gustavo didn't want to build a future with her, at least not the kind that she wanted. I mean, Nori wanted to get married and have kids, and she was tired of feeling like she was stuck in the middle of someone else's marriage. **[0:19:14] Ashley Flowers:** Now, Gustavo said in that 2010 interview that he felt like things were moving fast as the relationship got more serious, like a little too fast. And know who else might not have liked how fast things were moving? Gustavo's wife. Carlos said that about two weeks before Nori's murder, the main phone rang at their restaurant. Carlos picked it up, and the woman on the other end asked to speak with Nori and said that she was Gustavo's wife. **[0:19:42] Ashley Flowers:** So Carlos says he takes down her name and phone number on the restaurant's like reservation clipboard, and he gave that message to his sister. He doesn't know if Nori called this woman back or what happened, but clearly, like, cat was out of the bag. And if the two women were comparing notes, Nori might have realized that she was getting worked. That's the headspace that she seemed to be in by Halloween. She was at a breaking point. **[0:20:09] Ashley Flowers:** And so normally, Nori loved Halloween. Like every year, she would make these elaborate costumes and celebrate by going dancing. But that year, Carlos says that she was so upset about Gustavo that she didn't even bother to make a costume. He actually made the mask for her that she wore. I guess he found this like old Venetian style mask in their upstairs office. He like took it apart, added some bright feathers, and that's what Nori wore with, like a black dress. **[0:20:34] Ashley Flowers:** So back to Halloween night. That night, it was Nori's turn to get off early and Carlos's to close the restaurant. And around nine thirty p. m. they sat at the bar to have dinner and share a bottle of their favorite wine together. And Carlos says that over dinner, Nori started crying about Gustavo. She felt like she was finally done with him, like, ready to break up for good. Carlos told her that she deserved better, and then around ten thirty p. **[0:21:04] Ashley Flowers:** m. Nori headed out for the night. Her first stop was Gustavo's club, the Rumba Cafe. Like I said, there is video footage from her time there that Detective Patterson reviews, and everything's normal. People were dancing, drinking, moving through the room in costumes and masks. And at one point, he sees Nori sitting at a table taking pictures with the small red camera that would later go missing. But here is where the drama starts, though none of it is really like caught on film. **[0:21:35] Ashley Flowers:** Detective Patterson pieces it together through talking with people who were there that night, like Gustavo and Nori's two friends, who I'm gonna call Amanda and David for privacy reasons. Detective Patterson learns that Nori spent at least part of the night around Gustavo. At some point, she asked him to sit with her, but Gustavo said no, he was working. And Gustavo remembered later that Nori seemed sad behind her mask, **[0:21:59] Brit Prawat:** I mean, I wonder why. **[0:22:00] Ashley Flowers:** right? And Detective Patterson remembers even texts that Nori sent to a friend around this time of the night. She said that she was upset because Gustavo wasn't paying any attention to her. So eventually, she left without saying goodbye to anyone. **[0:22:12] Brit Prawat:** And she left on her own. **[0:22:14] Ashley Flowers:** Yeah, so her one friend David said that he got pretty drunk and so someone took him home from the club. And her other friend, who I'm calling Amanda, said that she stayed and partied into the night with Gustavo and his group near Rumba after Nori left. Which at the at first, like I thought, was kind of weird, like, why are you staying with your friend's ex that she's like having problems with? But Amanda actually worked at Rumba Cafe before, so she was actually friends. **[0:22:34] Brit Prawat:** this is kind of like her group. Fir. **[0:22:36] Ashley Flowers:** She was friends with both of them, right? **[0:22:37] Brit Prawat:** But wait, like, did Nori actually break up with Gustavo or no? **[0:22:41] Ashley Flowers:** Well, according no, no, so according to Gustavo, she did not. Now, Nori doesn't go right home from here when she leaves Rumba Cafe. She never let anything, even a bad night, get in the way of her dancing. So Detective Patterson said that she went to a lounge and then to a club downtown to meet up with her dance partner. But tonight something was different. She got to the downtown club called Bravo Bravo around one forty five a. **[0:23:09] Ashley Flowers:** m. And her dance partner told Detective Patterson that she wanted to leave almost immediately. It looked to him like she was crying under her mask. So within fifteen minutes of being there, he walked her outside, helped her into a cab back to her apartment and watched her leave. That is the cab that took her home. We know she gets there by two thirty, and Carlos told us that he remembers police's best guess being that she died sometime in the window of two thirty a. **[0:23:38] Ashley Flowers:** m. to six a. m. **[0:23:40] Brit Prawat:** So there was nothing else on her phone, or anything about something happening, or, like, meeting up with someone. **[0:23:46] Ashley Flowers:** Current investigators would not go into detail about her phone. They just told us that there was nothing in there that had any bearing on her murder. Now, Carlos actually used to have her phone, like after police extracted all the data off of it, they gave it back to him. But of course, like, he lost it during a move, which, like, broke my heart, cause I would give anything to be able to go through that and, like, try and piece things together. **[0:24:08] Ashley Flowers:** But the only thing that Carlos really remembered is that Nori called him around midnight that night to, like, maybe meet up, which may have been, I think, around the time she left Rumba Cafe. But he told her that, you know, he was just at a friend's party. It was like more of a chill hang when she called, and he's like, you know, it's not gonna be worth it for you ugh, to come. Which, like, of course, he said, **[0:24:28] Brit Prawat:** can't imagine. **[0:24:28] Ashley Flowers:** yeah, he spent like years wondering, like, what would have happened if he told her just to come to that party anyways? **[0:24:35] Brit Prawat:** And how long was she at that like lounge place before she went to the downtown club? Like the timing of it all. **[0:24:41] Ashley Flowers:** I don't know exactly. I'm sure it is in the case files, but we, like I said, don't have those, and Detective Patterson couldn't remember anymore. **[0:24:47] Brit Prawat:** Okay, I'm just trying to, like, gauge whether something maybe happened there, or if she was just, like, upset by the Gustavo stuff, like the whole Oh, f- cause, night. **[0:24:57] Ashley Flowers:** you know, she leaves crying. As far as we know, she was just upset about Gustavo. No one has ever come forward with anything else. I mean, so, I mean, if someone out there knows something else, like, now is your time to shine. But if it really was just the Gustavo stuff, I'm thinking that she was probably, like, drinking all night. She's in her feels, like maybe all of those emotions just caught up with her later and overwhelmed her. **[0:25:19] Brit Prawat:** right, and like everyone else is having a good time around her, stuff like that. **[0:25:22] Ashley Flowers:** Yeah, you just wanna go home. **[0:25:23] Brit Prawat:** I assume that the police checked Gustavo's alibi, right? We believe yes. He Okay, **[0:25:29] Ashley Flowers:** was one of the first people that they brought in for questioning. I mean, they have Nori's siblings saying, Look at him, her friend David was even saying, look at him, and David didn't just know Nori, like Amanda, he also knew Gustavo too. Cause apparently, one of his family members said that he picked up shifts at Gustavo's club, so, like, that probably carried some weight. Well, not only does Gustavo deny killing Nori again and again, he gives Detective Patterson an alibi for the night of Halloween into the morning after. **[0:25:58] Ashley Flowers:** He says he was out with his friends, like Amanda and that group, the whole time. Those friends later back that up. And after he called it a night, Gustavo says that he went back to his apartment, which is above the club, and just went to sleep. **[0:26:10] Brit Prawat:** I mean, we don't know when she died, though. So It's I guess, like, is soft, that an alibi? **[0:26:17] Ashley Flowers:** it's soft, which is why they still collect his DNA. And they ask him about the third person in this love triangle, his wife. Why did she call Nori a couple of weeks before her death? Was she threatening her? And Gustavo's response is surprising. Gustavo said that Nori told him about the phone call, so he confronted his wife about it, but she denied making the call. She denied it again when she talked to the reporter for that Washington Post article, like she herself, she talked to them. **[0:26:53] Ashley Flowers:** But Gustavo said that this call scared him even more because if his wife didn't call Nori, then who did? **[0:27:02] Brit Prawat:** And why would someone pretend to be his wife? **[0:27:05] Ashley Flowers:** Well, that would open a whole can of mystery worms and speculation that Detective Patterson thinks aren't necessary. He said, quote, That was Gustavo's wife, end quote. So it seems like he thinks she did make that call. And he took it seriously enough during the initial investigation to question her, get a verifiable alibi from her, and even get her DNA as well. **[0:27:30] Brit Prawat:** But like, why get hers? I thought, like, male DNA was found. **[0:27:33] Ashley Flowers:** Yes, but I don't, you can never be too sure. And I mean, like, when you think about it, like, one of the things Detective Patterson considered was whether a third person could have been acting on behalf of Gustavo or his wife. I mean, there was someone in particular that Patterson even had in mind back then. This employee at Gustavo's club, who lives in the same building as his boss, located above the club. This guy raised eyebrows because not long after Nori's death, Nori's friend David alerted police that this employee just, like, up and left the country, went to Argentina. **[0:28:06] Ashley Flowers:** The employee said that it was for a family funeral, but the timing was just, like, a little too perfect in detectives' minds. So they actually concocted a little sting operation to surreptitiously get his DNA. Detective Patterson and his partner, they fly down to Argentina with two FBI agents. They meet the employee under the guise of being interested in buying some property from him. So they like, then make plans to have dinner with him, and then during dinner, when he's away, **[0:28:35] Brit Prawat:** This is like a whole spy drama. **[0:28:36] Ashley Flowers:** I'm telling you, they swipe his glass and his spoon. They bring the samples back to the U. S. and the investigators test all three samples Gustavo's, his wife's, this employee's, and then they wait. But the DNA results come back one by one. No match to Gustavo, no match to the wife, and no match to the employee. **[0:28:56] Brit Prawat:** Did the employee have an alibi? **[0:28:58] Ashley Flowers:** Yeah, so as much as anyone can when you don't know the time of death, right? And surveillance footage showed him still at the club for hours after Nori left. And investigators also find out, by the way, that that funeral in Argentina was legit. They didn't just, like, make that up to get out of dodge. **[0:29:14] Brit Prawat:** okay, but I can't come up with a scenario where any of these people taking, like, her camera Hm, back makes sense, to the camera, though. Like, I'm obsessed with this camera. **[0:29:24] Ashley Flowers:** I don't think the wife would have a reason, like the only thing that possibly makes sense would be like if the wife was, like, seen in the background of a picture, that would prove that she was, like, following So she was, like, Nori that seeing Nori that night. Yeah, night. but police know that she wasn't out that night based on her alibi, and we know that she didn't match the DNA, so not her. I guess the employee wouldn't wanna be seen in a picture if it was, like, at one of the last two places she went to. **[0:29:52] Ashley Flowers:** Like him being in pictures from, like, the Rumba Cafe doesn't mean anything, cause he works there, we know he's there. If it was Gustavo, I think he has the most to hide if there were pictures of him and Nori together on the camera. But that would be like if his wife didn't know about the affair. And we have Detective Patterson saying that, like, he absolutely believes that she did right. So so. **[0:30:15] Brit Prawat:** I mean, the question becomes, like, who else would have been on that camera from that night? **[0:30:20] Ashley Flowers:** I think the other people who were with her that night, probably. And investigators checked those people. I mean, they look at her dance partner. He was the last one with her, right? He's the one that puts her in the cab to go home, but there's no motive there. I mean, he was only with her for a few minutes. And icing on the cake, his DNA wasn't a match either. Truth be told, Patterson said they never really even suspected him. **[0:30:43] Ashley Flowers:** They really just tested his DNA to make sure that they were leaving no stone unturned. **[0:30:48] Brit Prawat:** crossing t's, dotting i's. **[0:30:49] Ashley Flowers:** But the real person who drew a lot of suspicion from police was somebody that Nori had known for years, somebody she trusted. The very man who offered up Gustavo's name as a suspect, the one who then pointed police in the direction of Gustavo's employee, the same man who somehow showed up to the crime scene, by the way, the same day that Nori was found without being called. And that's David. **[0:31:19] Brit Prawat:** Hm. I used to think cameras were enough, but they just record. Simply Safe is different. They understand that break-ins aren't just about the house, it's about the people you care about inside. 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And when you order, be sure to write in Crime Junkie in the checkout survey. **[0:32:16] Brit Prawat:** It lets them know we sent you and it really helps support the show. SimpliSafe ahead of crime in real time, **[0:32:26] Ashley Flowers:** David and Nori knew each other well. One of David's family members told us that he and Nori went way back, like all the way back to high school. They were part of a group that stayed in touch as they grew up, and David would still go out salsa dancing with Nori and their friends from time to time. And from Detective Patterson's perspective, David's basically been a part of this investigation from the beginning. Though, to begin with, he was just a witness, one who was conveniently in Nori's building the night that her body was found, like as police were processing the scene. **[0:33:04] Ashley Flowers:** So let me lay it out for you. Nori's sister Liz told us that after the nine one one call, police took over the apartment and asked Carlos and Liz to move into the hallway. And when Liz walked out, David was there, waiting in the crowd that had gathered around the door to see what was going on. Now, she can't tell us exactly how many minutes had passed since police got there or what time she saw David. **[0:33:27] Ashley Flowers:** Like, everything was just happening quickly. But the way she remembers it, they found Nori, and then, in her words, poof, David was suddenly right outside the apartment. Like to her, it felt quick, like too quick. **[0:33:39] Brit Prawat:** I mean, did someone call him? **[0:33:40] Ashley Flowers:** Not Carlos or Liz, I mean, and there could be, listen, an an innocent explanation for this. **[0:33:46] Brit Prawat:** Okay, well, what's his explanation? **[0:33:48] Ashley Flowers:** Well, we've tried multiple ways, multiple times to get in touch with him. We haven't been able to make contact. Detective Patterson remembers that his explanation was, like, weird, and he remembers asking David about it, but he doesn't remember. **[0:34:03] Brit Prawat:** Like, what it actually was? **[0:34:04] Ashley Flowers:** Yes, unfortunately. Now, what I will say is that Carlos said David was calling Nori at the same time, like Carlos had her phone because of, you know, David hadn't heard from her. So maybe he got worried and went to go look for her, just like Carlos did. But another friend of Nori's had this weird interaction with David, too. She was at work when she found out that Nori was murdered, so friends picked her up and drove her to Nori's mom's house. **[0:34:30] Ashley Flowers:** And on the way, she called the house to, like, you know, let them know she was coming, make sure it was okay. And it was David that answered, he was there. And off the bat, David started, like, launching into this really detailed explanation of where he was the night Nori died and why he wasn't with her. Like, he got sick, he had a cold or something, so he went home, took some meds and then he fell asleep and then he just overslept. **[0:34:52] Ashley Flowers:** And Nori's friend was sitting there thinking, like, why are you telling me? Like, why aren't we talking about Nori? But she just let him go on and on, and she told us as soon as she hung up, she turned to the people in the car and said, that was the weirdest conversation. But back to Nori's apartment that day, like when David showed up to the scene, he told police that he was with Nori that night. So obviously he went down to the police station with Carlos and Liz to give a statement. **[0:35:21] Ashley Flowers:** But Liz said that he just started, like, throwing out theories and names. I mean, at that point, though, police were like taking every lead he'll throw their way, jotting names down left and right. But as Detective Patterson tries to nail down David's relationship with Nori and his movements that Halloween weekend, things to him start feeling kinda shifty. According to Detective Patterson, David told him that he was out that night with Nori at Gustavo's club, and he got so drunk that somebody from the club drove him home because he couldn't drive himself. **[0:35:53] Ashley Flowers:** And **[0:35:53] Brit Prawat:** wait, didn't he tell the friend that he had a cold and went home and took medicine? **[0:35:58] Ashley Flowers:** yes, that is what that friend remembers, but it was a highly emotional time. Who knows? Anyways, his place is like forty minutes away in Maryland, meaning that when someone drove him home, he had to leave his car in D. C. So David said that he came back to D. C. at some point the next day to pick it up. And Detective Patterson starts asking him, Okay, like, where exactly did you leave your car? How did you get back into the city? **[0:36:25] Ashley Flowers:** When did you get back into the city? How long were you here? **[0:36:28] Brit Prawat:** and and that's like the important part, right? Like, was he in D. C.? I don't know, say, between like two thirty and six a. m. **[0:36:36] Ashley Flowers:** Wanna pull your hair out? So all these years later, Detective Patterson can't remember exactly what David said, and we could not get an answer from current investigators on this or from David himself. But Detective Patterson told us that he remembers David's answers just weren't adding up. I mean, he said, quote, the math ain't mathing. And then Detective Patterson learned just how much Nori trusted David and how much access he had to her apartment. Because remember, one thing that he took note of when he was first on the scene was the fact that there was no forced entry. **[0:37:17] Ashley Flowers:** And the door to Nori's apartment was locked when Carlos tried to check on her, he had to get the security guard to open it. Now, there are some alternate possibilities around all of this that I'm gonna get into later. But based on everything Detective Patterson saw at the scene, he always thought that this crime was personal. Somebody Nori knew, maybe somebody who even had a key to her place. And Nori's brother Carlos tells him David had one for a very interesting reason. **[0:37:50] Ashley Flowers:** So at this time, back in 2009, David was married to a woman, but he was also seeing men. Detective Patterson says there was one man in particular that they heard about, who I'll call Eric for privacy reasons. And apparently, Nori let David use her apartment as this like private place for them to meet up. Now, when David was asked by Detective Patterson if he had a key, he completely denied it, and they were never able to recover one from him. **[0:38:20] Ashley Flowers:** So he very well could be telling the truth. And really, the key thing might not even be that big of a deal. Because we were told Nori actually left her door unlocked all the time. Like I told you, her building had, like, all this, like security, security guard, all these like doors, the keyp up, whatever. And it made her feel like she was, **[0:38:39] Brit Prawat:** it was just safe. like, yeah, living Yeah, **[0:38:40] Ashley Flowers:** in a super secure place. And like, she didn't necessarily always need that extra layer. Carlos also told us that she may have started even leaving her door unlocked specifically for David. **[0:38:51] Brit Prawat:** I guess I don't get what his motive would be, though, cause it sounds like Nori was helping him out. **[0:38:57] Ashley Flowers:** Well, that could come back to Nori's camera. So a source told us that detectives learned that before Nori died, she downloaded a batch of recent photos from her digital camera onto a computer at the restaurant because her own computer wasn't working. And in those files were pictures of David and Eric together at a club, like dancing and kissing. Yeah, now I think it's important to note that our reporter Malika actually tracked down David's wife, ex-wife now, and she told us that she knew David was having affairs. **[0:39:37] Ashley Flowers:** She and David were already sleeping in separate rooms, and after Nori died, they got divorced. So I don't think her finding out would have been motive for anything, but that doesn't mean that he was ready for the world to know. **[0:39:51] Brit Prawat:** and what was Eric's situation? **[0:39:53] Ashley Flowers:** So from what we could tell from, like social media, Eric was a couple of years out of college, working as a waiter back in 2009, not at Rumba Cafe, as far as we know. And I don't know if he was fully out either, but he was, like, friendly with Nori and her friends through David. It seems like he was out with them at least. And we actually reached out to Eric during our reporting, and when we asked if he would speak with us about Nori, even just about, like, knowing her, he said something like, No, I mean, like, rest in peace, Nori, but no. **[0:40:23] Ashley Flowers:** Listen, here's the problem I have with all of that, like motive or whatever. Nori already downloaded those pictures of David and Eric onto a computer. So, like, if that was something you were hiding, either one of them taking the camera, **[0:40:39] Brit Prawat:** you don't need the camera, you need the computer at the restaurant. But maybe whoever did this didn't know that, right? Like, her computer isn't working. They might think that, like, they might not think about the computer at work. They could think that everything is still on the camera, **[0:40:52] Ashley Flowers:** sure, but why wait till that night? Like, if those pictures were so damning to someone, like to me, you get the ca, you get the camera, like the night that those pictures were taken. That wasn't Halloween. I think that if the camera is relevant, the pictures have to correspond to that night. **[0:41:11] Brit Prawat:** And was Eric with David that night? **[0:41:13] Ashley Flowers:** It doesn't seem like it. I mean, remember, David leaves on his own when he gets drunk, as far as we know, which, like, doesn't mean that they couldn't have met up later. But yeah, either way, they collect both men's DNA, and neither of them was a match for the DNA that they have on Nori. But even with that, there is something that Detective Patterson just can't shake about David. He doesn't think that he was the one who killed Nori, but in his personal opinion, he has always believed that David may have had some involvement, or at least knew more than he admitted. **[0:41:49] Brit Prawat:** David only? I mean, what about Eric? **[0:41:51] Ashley Flowers:** I mean, Detective Patterson didn't say much about Eric. Like, I mean, it seems like most of his focus has been David. But he is also clear that until they know what happened to Nori, like, nobody's completely off the table. But like I said, it doesn't seem like he's really, like, zeroing in on him at all. Though, I will say, Eric may not have been the only man that David was seeing. I mean, for almost the whole time we were reporting on this story, we didn't hear other names, just like, Oh, you know, David saw men in general. **[0:42:20] Ashley Flowers:** But we just learned something from a friend of Nori's that I find very interesting. So this friend told us that just a few weeks before Nori's murder, she had stopped by Nori's restaurant while David was there. And Nori started telling her about a different man that David was seeing, who was apparently a diplomat. Nori's friend couldn't remember this guy's name or even where he was from, but Nori told this friend that she and David went to a hotel where this diplomat was staying, and Nori got into an argument with this diplomat. **[0:42:56] Ashley Flowers:** She basically called this guy out over the way that he was acting toward David, telling him like, you're not a man, what kind of man acts like this? And apparently she wasn't backing down. And Nori's friend remembers, like, in that moment, being a little scared for Nori, like, you know, if this guy really was a diplomat, like, he's probably powerful, and Nori was just going off on him. Now she didn't hear anything more about this guy, so maybe this is totally random. **[0:43:24] Ashley Flowers:** But I can't verify an alibi or confirm if his DNA was tested because this came up so late in our reporting. We had already done our interview with Detective Patterson. We tried reaching back out to him, but he has not gotten back to us about our questions surrounding this diplomat. The only person who would even confirm that police heard about a diplomat was Nori's brother Carlos, and he was interesting to work with. Like, I mean, he's great. **[0:43:48] Ashley Flowers:** He wants Nori's case solved more than anyone. And yes, they they checked his DNA and alibi, like everything. He has never been a suspect, but, you know, he's really cognizant of not hurting the investigation. So, like, if we learned something from somewhere else, someone else, he would confirm it. but he wasn't Like, **[0:44:05] Brit Prawat:** necessarily like s serving up any information on his own. **[0:44:08] Ashley Flowers:** yes, and so that's like how it was with this diplomat. So once we asked him about this, he told us that he remembers the diplomat being from Mexico, and he remembers investigators tracking this guy down and talking to him. But he doesn't think anything came of it, though. I don't know what that means or how far they got with the guy. And I don't know if that guy, whoever he is, was even in D. C. on Halloween night 2009. **[0:44:35] Ashley Flowers:** Well, and But I would love to ask, **[0:44:37] Brit Prawat:** well, and I was wondering, like, did David and this diplomat ever use Nori's apartment? **[0:44:43] Ashley Flowers:** Me too. I assume police have asked David. I mean, Detective Patterson was thorough, but we can't be sure until he gets back to us. **[0:44:52] Brit Prawat:** I mean, if Patterson's theory is that David knows more, someone like a diplomat would make sense. It someone he might be afraid of. **[0:45:01] Ashley Flowers:** Or maybe there's somebody else that he was involved with that is yet to be identified, or maybe David really isn't involved at all. Even though we didn't make contact with him, we did speak to members of David's family who remember him being devastated by Nori's death. I mean, one family member remembers him crying and saying, like, she was my friend. Another remembers how shocked he seemed, saying, I just saw her. I cannot believe this happened. And they don't believe that David was involved in Nori's murder, and he has never been charged with anything in relation to it. **[0:45:35] Ashley Flowers:** Now, key or no key, we did learn that Nori was known to leave her apartment door unlocked. Like the I told you, the building had a security guy at the front, it had multiple cameras. You had to, like, use a pass thing or order to like, she get in. felt safe, Yeah, she like it was. There were so many layers of security, sometimes she didn't feel like she needed that extra one. Anyone could have come in. **[0:45:54] Brit Prawat:** yes, but I'm stuck on how they would have locked up behind them when they left, cause you would need a key for that. **[0:46:00] Ashley Flowers:** I was gonna come back to this, so I didn't wanna get sidetracked. Here's the thing, so no one could or would tell us definitively if Nori's keys were all accounted for. Police say the only thing missing was that camera of her, so I assume that n no keys were missing, but we don't know for sure. Especially if she had spares, right? That she was like, giving But she to friends, had made, and like, whatever. **[0:46:21] Brit Prawat:** there's no countdown, right? **[0:46:22] Ashley Flowers:** But more importantly, we know for certain that someone else was in Nori's apartment after she died, and they may have locked her apartment door. When police processed her apartment, they found a card for an exterminator, and they found out that the building had scheduled, like, a maintenance thing for the units on Monday, the same Monday that Nori was found. So an exterminator had a key to let himself in. He sprayed, he left, and when he left, it's very likely he might have been the one who actually locked the door, like, behind him, **[0:46:57] Brit Prawat:** Wait, so he was in her apartment with her dead body, **[0:47:01] Ashley Flowers:** which I know sounds bananas. I like spiraled on this. Detective Patterson interviewed this guy. He said the guy never actually went into the bedroom. He had no idea that she was in there. And this exterminator unfortunately doesn't remember if the door already was locked or unlocked when he went into right? It's the unit. **[0:47:17] Brit Prawat:** like one of those things that you don't think about remembering when it's happening. **[0:47:20] Ashley Flowers:** so, like, I don't know, uh, is the fact that there's no forced entry doesn't mean anything at all. I have no idea. **[0:47:26] Brit Prawat:** And they checked this guy's DNA, right? Like the exterminator, **[0:47:28] Ashley Flowers:** yep, he's not a match. So if someone didn't need to be let in or have a key, that could open up the suspect pool really, really wide. Maybe it isn't somebody who knew her. Maybe that's why this case has been so hard to solve. Detective Patterson points to things like the fact that Nori was covered with the comforter after she was killed. Like, he says, that's behavior you often see when somebody cares for the victim. **[0:47:57] Brit Prawat:** right? But it can also be something that a killer does if they're, like, ashamed of what they did. Like, **[0:48:02] Ashley Flowers:** Like, if the murder wasn't the plan. Yeah, like, you know, maybe they had gone in with the goal of some kind of, like, sexual assault and things like, got out it escalated, of hand, **[0:48:11] Brit Prawat:** like, out of hand, right? **[0:48:12] Ashley Flowers:** right? Now, interestingly, Carlos ran into a friend sometime a few months ago, somebody who's known both his family and David for years. And that friend told Carlos that they ran into David recently, and David started talking about Nori. He allegedly described her death as a sexual situation that went wrong that night. Now, from what I can tell, we are actually the first to report confirmation of sexual assault. That was never confirmed by police before. So back when this was said, it wasn't public knowledge. **[0:48:50] Ashley Flowers:** Carlos obviously told Detective Patterson. It piqued his interest because he's like, you know, in all the times that I've talked to David, David has never described Nori's death as a sexual situation gone wrong. In like any of the many, many theories that he suggested to police. Now, by this point, Patterson is retired, so he passed the information on to the current investigator. But it might mean nothing. I mean, we are hearing this secondhand. The friend who supposedly heard this from David wouldn't talk to us. **[0:49:17] Ashley Flowers:** And even if it was said, it wasn't a secret that she was found only in her underwear, in her bed. Like, maybe as more was reported or shared with, like, their friend group or family, it could have been an inference that David made, since it doesn't look like she was robbed. Like, it's not a wild conclusion to jump to. **[0:49:36] Brit Prawat:** oh, right, but like, not robbed, sure, but we do think something was taken. **[0:49:41] Ashley Flowers:** We think something was taken. We know Nori had her camera out that night, but the truth is we can't see it in the surveillance video. When she comes home, she's got, like, a purse or a bag or something, so like it might be in there, or maybe it got stolen. Like, one of the things I've I've been wondering, they spend so much time, or at least Detective Patterson did, talking about this camera or this thing missing. **[0:50:05] Ashley Flowers:** I've of I've often wondered if it got, like, left in the cab **[0:50:09] Brit Prawat:** oh, with her phone. **[0:50:10] Ashley Flowers:** with her phone, right? Phones are a little easier to trace. Like you, you wanna get them back to the owner. Cameras like poof gone, easy finders, keepers But they're also like **[0:50:17] Brit Prawat:** like, easier to, like, pawn or sell or get rid of my or something. cyber shot got stolen So **[0:50:23] Ashley Flowers:** when I was in high school. I don't wanna I know ta still **[0:50:24] Brit Prawat:** why I brought it up. **[0:50:25] Ashley Flowers:** a tender subject. See, and listen, I keep coming back to, like, if this was about the camera or the pictures on the camera, the thing I can't figure out is why kill her, why sexually assault her? **[0:50:39] Brit Prawat:** well, that's if the camera had something on it, like we've been talking about, like evidence of an affair. But like, one of the pictures just showed someone she was with that night who came back for her. Like, maybe it showed their costume and would prove that they were both in her lobby and out, like with her when she was out at all these places. **[0:50:57] Ashley Flowers:** I've thought I've thought about that. I mean, that's totally possible, like, without the camera, we have no idea what's on it. I've also, I'll tell you, thought, like, thrown around, like a darker theory, like, what if somebody used the camera to take pictures of Nori after they killed her, or even ooh, just, like, took it as a souvenir? like a trophy, yeah, Yeah, if it was taken, we don't really actually know the reason why. The thing I keep coming back to, and that I just can't let go for some reason, is like, her complex was so big. **[0:51:26] Ashley Flowers:** I keep wondering how hard they looked at every single person inside of it. Maybe the killer was never caught on surveillance cameras coming or going because they were already there. They could have known her habits, they could have known that she was somebody who didn't always lock her door. They would know that there's no cameras in the hallways. Now I know Detective Patterson explored that possibility, too. He says that investigators went door to door on Nori's floor, talking to her next door neighbor and several other people who, like, lived down the hall. **[0:51:58] Ashley Flowers:** And police did collect DNA from some people connected to the building, like even the security guard who let Carlos and Liz into Nori's unit. I don't know exactly who else, though, or an exact number of people. Even hearing, like, Oh, we went door to door on her floor, that's great. What I was told is there's more than 1,100 units. **[0:52:17] Brit Prawat:** yeah. I was like, in perspective, the town I grew up in is 1,600 people. **[0:52:21] Ashley Flowers:** Yeah, that's all of Walkarusa, **[0:52:23] Brit Prawat:** That's all of Walkarusa to be tested or talked to or contacted, and that's kind of a huge number for a small place. **[0:52:30] Ashley Flowers:** And what I'll say is like, it's not like they just looked right then. Because, um, Carlos remembers at least one resident being tested years later, after he died by suicide. I think they wondered, you know, could there have been a connection? Seems like no. But overall, Patterson remembers personally collecting DNA from around ten people, and later reporting says more than twenty people were eventually tested. Still, again, very big building, and I wonder if there was someone in there who might have been hiding in plain sight. **[0:53:02] Ashley Flowers:** That DNA will be a major key to solving this case. I really believe it's only a matter of time. I mean, even though they used the sample to get a profile good enough for CODIS, there was some left that could be used for IGG one day. Now, back before Patterson retired in 2017, he sent off the sample they had to Parabon NanoLabs for analysis. **[0:53:24] Brit Prawat:** but that was even before IGG was really a thing, **[0:53:27] Ashley Flowers:** It, yeah, they were doing still phenotyping stuff like that back then, but, like, right on the cusp. And at the time, they were told to wait, like anything they were gonna do was gonna use up the entire sample. It's like all they had left. The technology needed to get a little bit better. Now, remember, he retired, so he doesn't know what has happened with that sample since he left. **[0:53:47] Brit Prawat:** I mean, it's been almost ten years. I mean, surely there's there's gotta be something they can do now. **[0:53:52] Ashley Flowers:** I hope, I hope. I mean, for the sake of everybody who has been pushing to get this thing solved. None more than Nori's family, who have spent the last sixteen years trying to hold on hope that her case is gonna get solved. Carlos threw himself into finding answers. I mean, he chased leads, he called investigators, and for a long time, he tried to solve the case himself. And eventually he went to therapy, he started helping other people work through their trauma, too. **[0:54:19] Ashley Flowers:** And he says that today, the pain of losing his sister Nori doesn't control him the way that it once did. His and Nori's sister Liz actually took a little bit of a different path, though. She ended up studying criminal justice and forensics. Like she had said, she always had been interested in that world, but Nori's case became what she calls this inspirational factor in the path that she Took. And even though she's found ways to move forward, she says that learning how to live without Nori isn't the same thing as accepting that nobody's ever been held accountable For killing her. **[0:54:50] Ashley Flowers:** So DNA might be the thing that solves this case, but both Liz and Carlos believe that somebody in Nori's world knows more about what happened than they've said. So the answers might not hinge on just the evidence alone. They might be with somebody out there listening right now. So for our listeners who were in the DC area back in 2009, listen up. And if it's not you, pass this episode on to somebody who was. If you were at one of the DC clubs Nori went to on Halloween night in 2009, we wanna hear from you. **[0:55:25] Ashley Flowers:** Even if you don't think you have anything super important, maybe you have pictures or video from that night. Who knows? The names of the places are Roomba Cafe, Russia House, and Bravo Bravo. And if you lived or worked at Nori's building, the Woodner, we wanna hear from you too. Especially if you remember anything from October 31st or November 1st, 2009. But honestly, any time around then too, like was anything going on in the building, any weird instances, anyone who stood out. **[0:55:56] Ashley Flowers:** And I know I had to change a lot of the names in this episode for privacy, but if you recognize the people that I've talked about and you have had any interaction with them or if you've heard anything, come forward. What you know or heard might be something small. Maybe it sounded like gossip or didn't feel important enough to report. Maybe you assumed the detectives already knew. But one tiny detail could be the break investigators have been waiting for. **[0:56:22] Ashley Flowers:** You can reach them by calling MPD at 202-727-9099, or you can reach us, as always, by emailing tips at audiochuck.com. Crime Junkie is an Audio Chuck production. I think Chuck would approve. **[0:56:48] Ad read:** Growing up in a small town, I know how deeply a crime can shake a local community. And I know that what makes the headlines is rarely the full story. That's what Kylie Lowe explores on her show Dark Down East. She digs into cases from Maine and New England using original reporting, archival records, and conversations with the people who knew them best. Each episode takes you inside the communities these stories shaped and the families who never stop searching for answers. **[0:57:11] Ad read:** Listen to Dark Down East wherever you get your podcasts. When the nights grow longer, the shadows start to stir, and that can only mean one thing full body chills is back. This season, step inside original tales where every doorway leads somewhere darker, every stranger carries a secret, and nothing is ever quite what it seems. Each story takes you somewhere new, but be careful. You never know what might follow you home. 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