# MYSTERIOUS DEATH OF: Heather Turner Part 1

- **Show:** Crime Junkie
- **Published:** 26 Oct 2026
- **Source:** https://crimejunkiepodcast.com/
- **Transcript:** https://podcasts.opennash.com/shows/crime-junkie/mysterious-death-of-heather-turner-part-1-b21443/
- **Provider:** OpenNash Podcasts (machine-generated)

## In brief

The episode argues that Heather Turner's 2017 death, which was first treated as a suicide, deserves a harder look. The hosts lay out reports from coworkers, a judge, emails and a first wife's records that describe Andy Turner as controlling and abusive. They stress these are allegations. Andy denies wrongdoing, says the abuse claims were invented by women who opposed him, and points listeners to his book.

The central tension is between the human story and the physical evidence. Heather's friends and coworkers say she was about to leave Andy and had been told to resign or be fired that day. Meanwhile, her DNA was on the trigger, she tested positive for gunshot residue, and the medical examiner found the wound self-inflicted. Investigators left the case open but undetermined, which is why Part 2 matters.

## Key insights

1. **A rookie coroner's instincts triggered the autopsy** The coroner, four months into the job, noticed a darker patch on the wall, an unexplained smaller wound on the right side of the head, and no bullet at the scene. Those details led her to order an autopsy rather than release the body as a suicide.
2. **Heather faced a job crisis the day she died** Heather and a coworker she was involved with were told by the judge the day before to resign or be fired. Andy told deputies at the scene she would be fired that morning, yet his book says he did not know the reason.
3. **Physical evidence points toward suicide despite abuse allegations** Only Heather's DNA was on the trigger, her hands tested positive for gunshot residue, and the medical examiner called the wound self-inflicted. Andy's hands tested negative, but he first said he had not washed them and then said EMTs had.
4. **Andy's lawyer slipped and called it a homicide investigation** When Andy's attorney declined an interview, he said he would not 'feed his client up to the police in a homicide investigation'. Detectives pointed out they thought it was a suicide, and he said he had misspoken. Andy never sat for an official interview.
5. **The case stayed open because of Heather's loved ones** With no one actively working it, investigators let the case sit open. Heather's friends and aunt started a 'Justice for Heather Turner' Facebook page, and a TV show brought it national attention in 2022.

## Questions this episode answers

### Why did the coroner order an autopsy if it looked like a suicide?

The new coroner noticed a darker spot on the bathroom wall that might have been cleaned, a second smaller wound on the right side of Heather's head, and no bullet at the scene. She wanted those explained before calling it a suicide.

### What did the autopsy find about how Heather died?

The medical examiner said the bullet entered the left side of her head and lodged in her skull bone, which is why no bullet was found. The examiner judged the wound self-inflicted, but the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) ruled the death 'undetermined' because the sheriff's office was still investigating.

### Why do people doubt it was a suicide?

Coworkers, a judge and emails describe alleged abuse by Andy and say Heather planned to leave him that weekend. Her friends and family also did not believe she would leave her daughter.

### What evidence supports the suicide theory?

The only DNA profile on the gun's trigger was Heather's, and gunshot residue testing was positive on her hands. The medical examiner also found no other injuries and no signs of close-range firing such as stippling or muzzle burns.

### Did Andy Turner give his side of the story?

He declined to take part in the episode, saying the sheriff's office has all the facts and that his side is in his book, 'Who Turned Up the Silence'. In the book he describes a picture-perfect marriage and says the abuse claims were made up by women who opposed him.

## Facts

- **Ashley Flowers** [0:01:45]: "They're responding to a frantic 911 call that came in from 43-year-old Andy Turner, saying that his wife, Heather, shot herself in the bathroom."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:03:27]: "even though this coroner was brand new, only four months into the job, she says that she saw enough that made her know that the right thing to do was to take a closer look at this"
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:08:48]: "Heather and Andy moved in together, and after Heather got pregnant with their daughter, their only child together, and then they got married in 2010."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:10:11]: "Heather worked as a clerk at the Paulding County Courthouse, and her coworkers there confirmed that there was, in fact, an affair happening between Heather and another clerk there"
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:10:11]: "they had gotten pulled into the judge's office the day before and they were basically told, like, listen, you need to resign or you'll be fired."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:18:19]: "detectives do get a search warrant for Andy's phone, and they find an internet search dated April twenty third."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:20:17]: "both of those things, an officiant and a ceremony, are required to make marriages legal in Georgia."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:22:28]: "the medical examiner says that the bullet entered the left side of Heather's head and that the bullet was found lodged in a bone in her skull."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:22:59]: "the GBI decides to rule Heather's death as undetermined since the sheriff's office was still investigating."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:23:32]: "he did include his feelings about Mindy in his book, which is called Who Turned Up the Silence."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:23:32]: "It's over a hundred pages. She had been documenting everything from the abuse that she allegedly endured at the hands of Andy to the numerous affairs that he allegedly had while they were married."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:31:50]: "About a week after Heather's death, forty three year old Andy was introduced to twenty six year old Christy Chupp through a mutual friend."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:35:29]: "Christy told us that that night she had was a breaking point. And what prompted her to press charges and file for a protection order against Andy in August of 2018."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:35:58]: "The hearing for the restraining order is on September fifth, and less than ten days later, she and Andy are engaged."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:41:55]: "They did, and the only DNA profile that came back was on the trigger, and it belonged to Heather, which is one of the pieces of evidence that supports the theory of suicide."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:41:55]: "Gunshot residue testing, by the way, also were positive on Heather's hands."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:42:13]: "They swabbed him on the scene the day that they responded, and the results ended up being negative."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:43:07]: "Her mom died when she was nineteen, and she had a rocky relationship with her dad that she was working to mend."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:44:01]: "So they started a Justice for Heather Turner Facebook page that got some local traction, and with that came the public scrutiny of Andy."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:45:12]: "when Heather's case gets featured on a TV show and goes from local to national in 2022."
- **Ashley Flowers** [0:46:18]: "So this month, we are pledging 175,000 to nonprofits that are doing the work, supporting survivors of intimate partner violence and prevention."

## Transcript

**[0:00:00] Ashley Flowers:** When you're out in nature, you learn to trust your instincts. You pay attention to the trail, your surroundings, and you stay alert to protect yourself from harm. But what if the biggest threat isn't the environment at all? On Park Predators, host Delia D'Ambra explores true crime cases that happen in national parks and remote wildernesses, the places we usually think of as safe and peaceful. Each episode reveals what happened and how much more there is beneath the surface.

**[0:00:27] Ashley Flowers:** Listen to Park Predators now, wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Crime Junkies, I'm your host, Ashley Flowers.

**[0:00:34] Brit Prawat:** And I'm Britt.

**[0:00:35] Ashley Flowers:** And today's story revolves around something that keeps me up at night. If two people are in a room and one of them dies, can you ever really know the full truth? As the saying goes, two can keep a secret if one of them is dead. And despite all the unknown, a dedicated group of people haven't stopped asking questions in this case. And so are we, all in hopes of understanding what happened to Heather Turner. It's early Thursday morning on May 4th, 2017, when deputies from the Paulding County Sheriff's Office pull up to a home in Dallas, Georgia.

**[0:01:45] Ashley Flowers:** They're responding to a frantic 911 call that came in from 43-year-old Andy Turner, saying that his wife, Heather, shot herself in the bathroom. He's actually still on the phone with the dispatcher when responding deputies get there. The dispatcher had been trying to calm Andy down and talk him through how to do CPR, which he does in between crying and what sounds like throwing up. But really, it must have been like dry heaves because responding deputies don't see vomit anywhere when they arrive, but they do see steam coming from the bathroom where they find Andy on the floor holding his 35-year-old wife, Heather Turner.

**[0:02:20] Ashley Flowers:** She's face up and completely naked except for some towels draped over her body, and it looks like her hair might be wet, but it's hard to tell because of all the blood that is coming from a large wound beside her left ear. And the blood isn't just on her, it's everywhere on the towels around her, near the base of a closet door in the bathroom. And it's a little bit hard to like, get your bearings. So our team actually put together a layout of this bathroom that we're including in our video.

**[0:02:45] Ashley Flowers:** Now, the first responders try to get Andy out of the room so that they can look at Heather. And by now, the couple's eight-year-old daughter is at the deputy's heels asking if her mommy is gonna be okay.

**[0:02:56] Brit Prawat:** Uh, was she sleeping when they got there?

**[0:02:58] Ashley Flowers:** No, she had woken up to a loud noise earlier, presumably the gunshot. She just saw her mom's like legs in the bathroom, like or on the bathroom floor before her dad got her to, like, get away. But she'd seen enough to be worried, and the terrible answer was no, her mom wasn't going to be okay. Heather was pronounced dead right there on the floor of the bathroom. In the reports from deputies, on the counter, there was a notebook folded open to a page with just five words written on it.

**[0:03:27] Ashley Flowers:** It says, I'm sorry, I love you. Now there's a world where this story could have ended right here, because the decision of what to do next fell to the coroner. And she had two options release Heather's body to the funeral home, basically saying this is a suicide, no further investigation needed, or she could proceed with an autopsy. And even though this coroner was brand new, only four months into the job, she says that she saw enough that made her know that the right thing to do was to take a closer look at this, to be absolutely sure about what this is.

**[0:04:04] Ashley Flowers:** Because there were a couple of little things that she saw when she got to the scene that nagged at her. I mean, they might be easily explained away once they do the investigation, but they have to do the investigation.

**[0:04:14] Brit Prawat:** Right, we say that, like, all the time. What were the things that she was kind of, like, that were flagging for her?

**[0:04:20] Ashley Flowers:** Well, for one, even though it looks like most of the blood spatter is lower, almost like Heather was crouched down near the linen closet and toilet when the trigger was pulled. There is one area about midway up the wall near the toilet that looks darker, like maybe it had been cleaned up in some way. She doesn't know for sure, it just stands out to her. And Heather's wounds also stand out. Now, caveat, this coroner is not a medical doctor.

**[0:04:46] Ashley Flowers:** But by the way, she's also not like an untrained Joe Schmo off the street, like, and you don't have to go through extensive schooling to be a coroner. We have talked about this before, but she did, and she has been brought to the scene to take note of the state of the body, to investigate the death. So she saw the same thing that responding deputies did, which was a hole on the left side of Heather's head, and I had our team make a diagram of this as well.

**[0:05:13] Ashley Flowers:** But she also makes note of a smaller wound on the right side, like higher up. She doesn't know what it is, but it's something to be looked at in the autopsy.

**[0:05:23] Brit Prawat:** I mean, could it be an exit wound?

**[0:05:24] Ashley Flowers:** She doesn't know, but she also reports that she doesn't see a bullet or any sign of a bullet in the room or the surrounding area. So you see why she's like, Hey, you know what? Like, let's get that autopsy.

**[0:05:36] Brit Prawat:** Yeah, was the gun still in the bathroom when they found Heather?

**[0:05:39] Ashley Flowers:** It was the revolver, which was Heather's gun, was kind of like sticking out under a bloody towel beside the toilet, which was near where her head was positioned. But I think it's kinda hard to say much more about the position of anything because Andy later tells deputies that at some point he realized that he was sitting on the gun, so he m moved it over to the side. So as they prep to remove Heather's body, the coroner talks with Andy about the hours leading up to Heather's death.

**[0:06:07] Ashley Flowers:** Now, Andy says that last night, the family had dinner together, and after, he and Heather had husband and wife time all night long.

**[0:06:16] Brit Prawat:** I'm kind of scared to ask, but what's husband and wife This is not time?

**[0:06:19] Ashley Flowers:** me. Well, husband and wife time is sex, and he calls it husband and wife time.

**[0:06:24] Brit Prawat:** And he said, all night,

**[0:06:26] Ashley Flowers:** From after dinner till like four or five o'clock in the morning.

**[0:06:32] Brit Prawat:** where is their daughter? Cause she's like eight. That's a that's the age of my daughter.

**[0:06:36] Ashley Flowers:** She, I don't know what time they had dinner. She must have gone to bed shortly after dinner. She slept on the couch that night. I don't know either way. Eventually, after marathon husband and wife night, Andy fell asleep in the wee hours of the morning. Now, he wrote a book that we read for this case about his experience, and in it, he specifically said that he fell asleep with his head laying on Heather's back. He says that he was lying in bed when Heather got up to get ready for work, and then he heard this loud pop.

**[0:07:07] Ashley Flowers:** He jumps up, runs to the bathroom. This is the same time that his daughter did, and that's when he found Heather on the ground and told her daughter to, like, get out so she wouldn't see anything. Now, Andy tells the coroner and the deputies that there were no warning signs. I mean, in his book, he says that they never even fought in all their time together. Andy claims they maybe had, like, two disagreements. And in the ring light of social media posts, their relationship did look picture perfect.

**[0:07:35] Ashley Flowers:** They had these what they called coffee time chats that they would post on Facebook to talk about their relationship. And, of course, God, because why do I feel like these couple to camera videos are always talking about God and perfect relationships?

**[0:07:46] Brit Prawat:** Yeah, somehow they're also always ending up on our show.

**[0:07:50] Ashley Flowers:** There is a theme here. And I always say, the more you have to, like, project this image of a perfect marriage or a life, the less I believe it. And they were projecting. I mean, all the photos that Andy posted online were of red bottom shoes that he bought Heather, the vacations that they were taking. It looked like they were living a life of luxury, but the relationship had bumps from the very beginning. They each were married with kids before they met one another.

**[0:08:16] Ashley Flowers:** In Andy's book, he says that he didn't meet Heather until they were both already going through their respective divorces. But our reporters talked to multiple people with ties to the couple who dispute that. The story around town was that Heather and Andy met at church when she was still with her first husband. Andy was an associate pastor, and Heather and her husband were actually getting marriage counseling from Andy when the affair allegedly started in 2008.

**[0:08:45] Brit Prawat:** Okay, why am I getting Micah and JP Miller vibes here?

**[0:08:48] Ashley Flowers:** W So we were reporting on this story the same time that the doc on Netflix came out about Micah Miller, and there were, like, some weird deja vu moments for me. So, like, just wait. So eventually, when their divorces were finalized, Heather and Andy moved in together, and after Heather got pregnant with their daughter, their only child together, and then they got married in 2010. Now, while he's saying that there were no warning signs that she was gonna take her own life, Andy is upfront with investigators at the scene that Heather had been going through a lot recently.

**[0:09:21] Ashley Flowers:** She was going through a custody battle with her ex-husband, she had lost her grandfather, who she was super close with. And the real thing that sticks out like a sore thumb is, he says that Heather was supposed to resign or be fired from her job literally that day.

**[0:09:37] Brit Prawat:** For what?

**[0:09:38] Ashley Flowers:** Oh, I have the police files. And in it, he tells investigators at the scene, she quote, was going to get fired for having an affair with a coworker and was going to be fired when she went to work that morning. Which clearly he had known about because he's telling them about this. But by the time Andy writes his book, he's claiming he had no idea. He just writes that he knew there was a guy that had been harassing her at work and she was actually getting in trouble for personal emails she was writing to Andy.

**[0:10:11] Ashley Flowers:** But what he wrote in the book is not accurate because I'm looking at the files. And investigators spoke with Heather's boss and coworkers, and their story about what led up to this is clear and consistent from person to person. Heather worked as a clerk at the Paulding County Courthouse, and her coworkers there confirmed that there was, in fact, an affair happening between Heather and another clerk there that she one that she worked with. And it might have just been emotional, maybe more, but they had gotten pulled into the judge's office the day before and they were basically told, like, listen, you need to resign or you'll be fired.

**[0:10:48] Ashley Flowers:** Choice was theirs to make the next day.

**[0:10:51] Brit Prawat:** Which is the day that she died.

**[0:10:52] Ashley Flowers:** Yes, but this is just the tip of the iceberg, because what Andy left out of his story to deputies was everything that led up to this affair. And that's something Heather's coworkers lay out in horrible detail. One deputy clerk who worked with Heather said that they used to be close and Heather would confide in her about the way that Andy was with her behind closed doors. Heather allegedly said that he cheated on her before and had been physically violent.

**[0:11:22] Ashley Flowers:** She told this coworker that a few years ago, Andy had even broken her ribs. Now, more recently, Heather told her that she stopped sleeping in the bed with Andy and she was sleeping in one of their other bedrooms in the house. A different deputy clerk tells detectives about three weeks ago, Andy brought his and Heather's daughter to the office so that they could all have lunch together. Now, according to this clerk, when she tried going into the break room, the door was locked, which was weird to her, so the clerk unlocked it and found Heather pressed against the wall and Andy right in her face.

**[0:11:53] Ashley Flowers:** Now, Andy didn't write about anything like this incident in his book, so I can't tell you what his side of things are. I thought for a second that he was gonna talk to us for this episode because our reporter got a text back from him on Monday, September 14th. He said that he was traveling, said, You know, send your questions by email, I'll get back to you on Wednesday. We email them over next day, crickets. She even checked back in two weeks later, just to, like, make sure he got the email, texted him on the same number that they were communicating with, and he didn't respond for a while.

**[0:12:21] Ashley Flowers:** So I thought Andy was gonna ghost us. But at the 11th hour, he came back to us and said that he did not want to participate in our coverage and that the sheriff's office has all of the facts. But his side of the story is in his book, so we're gonna rely on that. And the only real work incident that he talks about in this, leading up to Heather's death, is one time where he says he made a call to the coworker that Heather was having an affair with.

**[0:12:47] Ashley Flowers:** And he says that got blown out of proportion and is at the center of what he says people online are calling cover-up conspiracies.

**[0:12:55] Brit Prawat:** What do you mean?

**[0:12:57] Ashley Flowers:** I'm not sure exactly. I mean, add it to the list of questions that I wanted to ask him. But like, a call and showing up are two very different incidents if both happened. Now, there are no known reports regarding that break room incident, but people at the office were concerned, especially the judge. Apparently, most of the office knew what the fight was about Heather's affair with her co-worker. The judge tells detectives that she recently found out about the affair and basically told them like, this is a major HR issue.

**[0:13:29] Ashley Flowers:** They had this whole talk, right, the day before Heather died. But the judge also said that she had conversations with Heather just about Andy, because Heather did confide in her as well about some of the stuff that was allegedly going on at home. The judge even recommended to Heather that she get a temporary protective order against Andy, but Heather just said that she planned on leaving Andy soon. She said the same thing to that first clerk that I mentioned.

**[0:13:57] Ashley Flowers:** Two days before she died, she had said that she was gonna leave Andy that very weekend.

**[0:14:04] Brit Prawat:** And I assume they talked to, like, the coworker too, like, I know they talked to the judge and these two clerks, but, like, the coworker she was having an affair with.

**[0:14:10] Ashley Flowers:** Yeah, so his name's Joel Haybear, he goes by Rob, and Heather had worked with him at the probate court since she started less than a year ago. Now, according to Rob, they became fast friends and pretty quickly Heather was telling him even more than the other clerks about the alleged abuse that she was experiencing at home. Our reporter, Taylor Day, spoke to Rob, and he said, It's not like she just, like, came up to him and dumped.

**[0:14:33] Ashley Flowers:** He had to really press her for that information, asking if Andy hit her or forced himself on her. And according to Rob, she told him yes to all of those things. Rob says that they started getting more intimate about five months before all of this, and a lot of it was through emails. But somehow, the judge found out about these emails, which is why she called them in for that meeting. Now we got the emails and messages with all of the documents that we FOIA'd, and some of the messages are flirty.

**[0:15:06] Ashley Flowers:** But by April, things took a turn. Now, this was allegedly after Andy found out about her and Rob, but before that courthouse break room incident. And Heather writes to Rob and says this. Let's face it, if student loans are slowing down your financial goals, it might be time for a smarter strategy. That's where today's sponsor, SoFi, comes in. SoFi is helping you tackle student debt by refinancing your loans with flexible monthly payments that fit your budget.

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**[0:16:09] Ashley Flowers:** Visit SoFi dot com slash Crime Junkie to see how much you can save. That's SoFi dot com slash Crime Junkie and start making smarter money moves with SoFi. SoFi student loans are originated by SoFi Bank, N. A. Member FDIC. Additional terms and conditions apply. NMILS six nine six eight nine one. This email to Rob is dated April fifth, so like, a month before she died. Amber, I'm gonna have you read this. He took my keys, called me a told me he knew I was screwing an attorney, told redacted that I'm ripping our family apart, said I don't love anyone but myself.

**[0:16:54] Ashley Flowers:** He said, No one else will ever love me, that I will allow myself to be used because I have no self-worth, and no one will ever see anything other than an opportunity when they look at me. We fought until three a. m. I refused to go into the bedroom because he locked me in there yesterday at lunch. I fell asleep sitting at the kitchen table and woke up at five to go to work. My mother died sixteen years ago today.

**[0:17:48] Ashley Flowers:** This is a difficult day in general for me, and now I still have to deal with all of his craziness. He told me he would bury me before he signed divorce papers. I think that was a threat, but he said it was just an expression. Is it?

**[0:17:54] Brit Prawat:** Then he just cries and cries and loves me so much, then two minutes later he hates me again. My brain is fried. I miss you so much it hurts, and now you're upset because of me, and I hate that.

**[0:17:55] Ashley Flowers:** I mean, the stuff she's describing in this email, if true, is like classic

**[0:17:56] Brit Prawat:** I was gonna say, like, abuse. t uh, textbook.

**[0:17:56] Ashley Flowers:** Textbook, the way he's talking about her trying to, like, chip away at her self-confidence, even to, like, keeping her up all night, like she I was gonna had to go to work. say the sleep deprivation Hm, hm, of it. Like, hm.

**[0:18:00] Brit Prawat:** that's like very classic manipulation tactic.

**[0:18:03] Ashley Flowers:** Now, Rob also tells detectives that one time Heather came to him and mentioned finding a strange search on the computer, something about suicide. And she said she asked Andy about it and he told her not to worry.

**[0:18:16] Brit Prawat:** I mean, that's definitely something that you worry about.

**[0:18:19] Ashley Flowers:** Y- Yes, and I don't know this for sure, but I think it's possible that at the time when she saw this, she might have been more concerned for Andy than herself. Because another story that she allegedly told Rob was about a night when Andy was drunk, sitting on the couch with a gun, talking about making her rich. I don't really know what to make of it all, but in the case files, detectives do get a search warrant for Andy's phone, and they find an internet search dated April twenty third.

**[0:18:46] Ashley Flowers:** So this is like a week and a half before Heather died, and it was for quote, Does suicide void life insurance in the USA? Now, Rob said he knew how dangerous Heather's situation was. He said the day that they got called into the judge's chamber, he was telling her to leave, to go stay with her father, Billy, somewhere with somebody around so she would be safe. He said they both knew that they couldn't stay at that job anyways, and his plan was that they were gonna resign so that they could be together.

**[0:19:19] Ashley Flowers:** So, on their way out that day, Heather handed him a letter that she had written in response to one that he'd given her, and he shared a copy of this letter with us. It's mostly just about, like, her feelings for him, but importantly, at the end, she writes, I love you and I would love to see you over the weekend.

**[0:19:37] Brit Prawat:** So she wants to see him that weekend. I mean, she's telling coworkers that she's leaving her husband that weekend, gonna get a divorce, and before that weekend, she dies.

**[0:19:47] Ashley Flowers:** Yes, except the divorce part seems a little bit up in the air because turns out, technically, she might not have needed a divorce. Rob says that Heather and Andy's marriage wasn't even real. Heather told him that Andy forged the pastor's signature on the certificate and she turned it into the probate court. Now, Andy says in his book that they got married in their living room, got a friend to sign it later, and Heather was the one who was supposed to file the paperwork.

**[0:20:17] Ashley Flowers:** But regardless, Heather was telling people that the wedding was never officiated, and apparently they never exchanged vows or had any kind of ceremony. And both of those things, an officiant and a ceremony, are required to make marriages legal in Georgia.

**[0:20:31] Brit Prawat:** So they're not married under God or under the law.

**[0:20:35] Ashley Flowers:** I mean, I think the law saw them as married, but there might have been this forgery thing in the mix. And Rob's not the only one that Heather told this to. She told the judge this same thing that their marriage was fake.

**[0:20:49] Brit Prawat:** But but why? Like it? I mean, it seems like at one point at least she did want to be with him.

**[0:20:54] Ashley Flowers:** I have no idea what this is about or what role each of them played in this forgery. I honestly, this is something I could spiral on, but everything I'm thinking or would say like, is just baseless. So, uh, let's just keep rolling. Our crime junkies can write in and tell us, like, what they think about Yeah, I wanna this.

**[0:21:11] Brit Prawat:** know, like, all the theories.

**[0:21:13] Ashley Flowers:** So, as more and more of this information is coming in, investigators are eager to get back in front of Andy, right? Except they can't. Every time they try to get him in for an interview, he either refuses or defers to his lawyer, who declines for him. And in his book, Andy claims that he wasn't going to do a thing for the sheriff's office because he already answered their questions and they kept harassing Wait, when him.

**[0:21:37] Brit Prawat:** did he answer their questions?

**[0:21:39] Ashley Flowers:** I think he's talking about, like, at the scene. And he did talk to them there, but he didn't do any kind of, like, official sit-down interview in the weeks and months after.

**[0:21:47] Brit Prawat:** Right, like after they found out about all the abuse allegations and stuff.

**[0:21:51] Ashley Flowers:** Correct, which is probably why they kept asking for an interview. Now, one of the times I can see in the reports that Andy's attorney replies to a request to meet, saying something like, Andy's not coming in for this interview because he, like the lawyer, he is not going to quote feed his client up to the police in a homicide investigation. And the detectives are like, whoa whoa.

**[0:22:14] Brit Prawat:** who said homicide?

**[0:22:14] Ashley Flowers:** We thought this was a suicide, and the attorney goes, like, Oh, I must have misspoken. And by the way, we reached out to him too for comment, but he didn't get back to us either.

**[0:22:23] Brit Prawat:** I mean, to be clear, is it technically anything yet, or just a death investigation?

**[0:22:28] Ashley Flowers:** Yes, your s your spidey senses are correct because they're still awaiting an autopsy result, which were about to just come in from the GBI, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. In the autopsy report, the medical examiner says that the bullet entered the left side of Heather's head and that the bullet was found lodged in a bone in her skull. That's why they didn't find a bullet at the scene. He said there were multiple skull fractures, which is to be expected in a case involving a gunshot wound to the head, but there wasn't any other trauma.

**[0:22:59] Ashley Flowers:** Another thing the ME doesn't note is any sign of stippling or muzzle burns. So, in the end, the ME says that based on the trajectory of the bullet and there being no other visible wounds, they determine that the wound was self-inflicted. However, the GBI decides to rule Heather's death as undetermined since the sheriff's office was still investigating. And I can see from the investigative files that part of their investigation involved speaking to Andy's first wife, Mindy.

**[0:23:32] Ashley Flowers:** Now, remember, Andy didn't want to talk to us, but he did include his feelings about Mindy in his book, which is called Who Turned Up the Silence. But Mindy has her own side of the story, and she didn't go on to write a book. She collected a binder of documentation that she turned over to the sheriff's office, and there is a copy of the binder's contents in the case files. It's over a hundred pages. She had been documenting everything from the abuse that she allegedly endured at the hands of Andy to the numerous affairs that he allegedly had while they were married.

**[0:24:07] Ashley Flowers:** I mean, she even included copies of handwritten letters that Heather wrote to Andy at the beginning of their relationship or their alleged affair in 2008. And emails that Andy and Heather sent to each other are full of really awful things that they wished would happen to Mindy, including some pretty disturbing statements, like Andy writing that he'd like to feed Mindy to alligators because she wanted, God forbid, alimony and child support. And Heather responded, Do it. Effort.

**[0:24:35] Ashley Flowers:** I personally like the alligators better. Rob told our reporters that Heather told him Andy forged a lot of emails between them and that she never said those things. But we don't have any proof of that,

**[0:24:50] Brit Prawat:** A And I'm not like excusing what was said at all if Heather, like, actually said it. But I always wonder in situations like this, like, what story, like, what version of the story the other woman gets?

**[0:25:00] Ashley Flowers:** right? Like, I'm sure, like his version of events, even his own perspective, like it's it, even if it felt if it felt true to him, is gonna be very different. And that's not a thing specific to this case or this divorce between him and Mindy.

**[0:25:13] Brit Prawat:** right. I mean, I'm not trying to, like, keep bringing up the Micah Miller case, but we saw this with, like, all of JP Miller's exes. Whoever he got with got, like, a different version, a different story than, like, Micah's truth.

**[0:25:29] Ashley Flowers:** Yeah, I mean, his church, right, got a different story than Micah's truth. Yes, and while we're comparing cases, there's another element of this one that you can hold side by side to the Miller case. To me, it seems like just like JP Miller had this pastor father who always took his son's side, so did Andy. Included in Mindy's binder is an account that she gives of when Andy had allegedly put his hands on her and started strangling her.

**[0:25:58] Ashley Flowers:** She was able to get away and she called Andy's dad, Curtis, who was like this traveling pastor at one point. She was calling him basically to try and diffuse the situation. But when he got there and she made a comment about calling the sheriff's office, Curtis allegedly told her that she shouldn't because, quote, the ministry is bigger than your problems.

**[0:26:19] Brit Prawat:** So she shouldn't leave her abuser because it would hurt the church.

**[0:26:22] Ashley Flowers:** Sound familiar? And on another occasion, after Mindy and Andy separated and they were going through a messy custody battle, Curtis sent this handwritten letter to the person who gives the judge, like, their recommendation on the custody arrangement.

**[0:26:39] Brit Prawat:** Oh, like a guardian ad litem.

**[0:26:41] Ashley Flowers:** Right, so that letter, it was also in the binder, and it is kind of hard to read, but it's on letterhead from Pastor Doctor Curtis Turner. And Britt, I'm gonna have you read this highlighted part. It's like the fourth paragraph.

**[0:26:55] Brit Prawat:** Yeah, his handwriting is, like, really tiny.

**[0:26:58] Ashley Flowers:** It's hard to read, yeah.

**[0:27:00] Brit Prawat:** I am by no means a perfect man, but I and my family have had a good name in this county for many, many years. We are here going nowhere, trying to live godly Christian lives before all. So, for God's sake and our name's sake, someone help me understand why we can't work on help, support, and try to build a good and strong family.

**[0:27:23] Ashley Flowers:** Even the way he, like, worded. It is interesting to me, like we are trying to live godly Christian lives before all, Well, and like it's a show.

**[0:27:29] Brit Prawat:** also, like, God's name for, like, for God's sake and our name's sake, like, very

**[0:27:35] Ashley Flowers:** it's about how, like, or perception. or what people, yeah, perceive them to be. And listen, not for this case, like, in particular, but I just need to say it because, like, I'm so tired of seeing this bull lie. You're not living a godly Christian life if you are an abuser or enabling an abuser. a thousand The end. Full stop. percent. No excuses, no like head of the household nonsense that justifies emotional, financial, psychological, or physical abuse.

**[0:28:00] Ashley Flowers:** I know our lieutenant governor here in Indiana is out there preaching that God is a God of hate, but absolutely no. I like, I do not believe that. We grew up in church, like

**[0:28:10] Brit Prawat:** which, like, for everything that it was,

**[0:28:13] Ashley Flowers:** all the good, bad and ugly. it's I was told, like, what I read in my Bible is that God is a God of love. We are supposed to show love to one another, we are supposed to show compassion. Now, Andy does not address every allegation of abuse in his book. He just says that these claims of abuse were all made up by women who were against him. And he details an instance where he claims his first wife lied about Andy hurting her and called the sheriff's office on him.

**[0:28:40] Ashley Flowers:** Now, we reached out to Mindy for comment, but we have not heard back as of this recording. However, when we reached out to Pastor Doctor Curtis for comment, he sent our reporter this text message, which I thought was interesting, and I also obviously printed out because I had to. He says, Here it is. Five exclamation points. She was not murdered! Exclamation point. The end! Exclamation point. That should end it. No more calls. Thank you. Looking forward, Titus two fourteen.

**[0:29:14] Ashley Flowers:** Pray hand emojis. Uh, I I don't know how read up you are on your Bible, but I told you to bring a Bible

**[0:29:20] Brit Prawat:** I was gonna tell me to today. bring a Bible today, so I assume Titus I have to look up. Titus

**[0:29:24] Ashley Flowers:** two fourteen.

**[0:29:24] Brit Prawat:** two fourteen.

**[0:29:25] Ashley Flowers:** Yup, you sure do.

**[0:29:28] Brit Prawat:** Okay, Titus two fourteen says, who gave? It's like, in the middle of a sentence. I feel like that's important. Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

**[0:29:44] Ashley Flowers:** I don't know if this is something he writes at the end of every message and he just like, feels it in his heart.

**[0:29:49] Brit Prawat:** It's like his verse or whatever.

**[0:29:50] Ashley Flowers:** But like, D I, I found it a little strange that it was like a message about forgiveness. There's I Y- Yeah, I need to cause you don't,

**[0:29:57] Brit Prawat:** shut this Bible.

**[0:29:58] Ashley Flowers:** you don't even know what's coming. So listen, let me say this. Maybe everything can be true at once. If Heather did take her own life, what drove her to it then? Also, if anyone was asking for forgiveness for anything, like I was taught that God forgives, but you gotta mean it and you gotta change. Andy, for sure, did not change, or at least not much. Because while the investigation into his wife's death was still ongoing, like before the GBI had even come back with an official undetermined ruling, he had started up the same old cycle with a brand new woman.

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**[0:31:50] Ashley Flowers:** About a week after Heather's death, forty three year old Andy was introduced to twenty six year old Christy Chupp through a mutual friend. Christy told our reporter Taylor Day that she had just moved back to the area from Hawaii with her two young boys. And this friend said that Andy could help her get into acting because apparently he owns a film studio in Paulding County? Question mark

**[0:32:15] Brit Prawat:** And he's an associate pastor.

**[0:32:17] Ashley Flowers:** He was now he somehow supposedly is involved in the film industry, which I know what you're thinking. When I think film industry, I think Paulding County, Georgia.

**[0:32:26] Brit Prawat:** I mean, when I think podcasting, it's Indianapolis, Indiana.

**[0:32:29] Ashley Flowers:** That is fair. So I just think it's I. I think it's weird because, like, I can't pin down how Andy made money to afford to live, or, like, his lifestyle. In the investigative records, it's like nobody can actually say what Andy does for work. No one's nobody seems to know. Anyways, Christy says that when she and Andy finally meet up, he was honest with her and told her that his wife passed away and that he needed a nanny to help with his kids, especially on its upcoming cruise.

**[0:32:55] Ashley Flowers:** And this is the same thing that Andy does say in his book, by the way. But Christy gave us a lot more detail on her perspective, which is interesting. She says that the way Andy talked about his wife made her think that his wife had passed away years ago from, like, an illness or something. To her, he didn't sound like the grieving husband that you would expect him to be if he had lost his wife a little over a week ago at that point,

**[0:33:21] Brit Prawat:** in like, a pretty abrupt way, with no warning signs.

**[0:33:25] Ashley Flowers:** And that is what he told deputies. No warning signs. Out of nowhere, he and his wife were happy, then she takes her life. Now, Christy didn't find out for a while how or when Heather died, so she took the job of nannying the kids and joined them on this cruise that happened in July.

**[0:33:41] Brit Prawat:** And the cruise was this booked before or after Heather died?

**[0:33:44] Ashley Flowers:** It was booked before Christy was actually taking Heather's place, and in more ways than one. Because around the same time, she says that she got intimate with Andy. And I'm not even gonna get into it, but there is at least one other woman in this window of time, like this matter of weeks since Heather died, who claims in official records that she was also getting intimate with Andy. But back to Christy, they start up a full-on relationship, but pretty soon, she starts having issues with Andy.

**[0:34:11] Ashley Flowers:** She tells us that he was allegedly both mentally and physically abusive to her. One of the worst nights she recalls is when she asked him about the age of one young woman he was supposedly spending time with. And Christy told our reporter, and it is documented in investigative records, that Andy kept her up all night, abusing her sexually and assaulting her. So scared and desperate, she says she begged him to either let her go or kill her, but he did neither.

**[0:34:42] Ashley Flowers:** Christy says that when the sun came up the next morning, something changed and he finally let her go and then just went on with life like normal.

**[0:34:51] Brit Prawat:** I mean, it's interesting that Heather's last night, he admits to being, like, up all All night night with her, too.

**[0:34:56] Ashley Flowers:** with her, right? Consensually, he says, which I will say the autopsy didn't find any physical evidence of sexual assault. But still, Heather's telling people that they aren't even sleeping in the same room at that point, that she was about to leave him that very weekend.

**[0:35:12] Brit Prawat:** Well, and this is also like another Micah Miller parallel. She told people that JP would keep her up like all night.

**[0:35:19] Ashley Flowers:** yeah, it was not lost on me that they're up all night, like right into the morning hours when Heather was supposed to get ready for work. And like a big day, A major too.

**[0:35:28] Brit Prawat:** day of work.

**[0:35:29] Ashley Flowers:** Anyways, Christy told us that that night she had was a breaking point. And what prompted her to press charges and file for a protection order against Andy in August of 2018. The protection order is the first time any of these alleged incidents of abuse are documented with officials. But Christy tells us, and this is in the reports, about a week before the court hearing, she found out that she was pregnant with Andy's baby. Right before the hearing, she miscarried, but this totally messed with her.

**[0:35:58] Ashley Flowers:** And she said Andy had isolated her so much that he was the only person she felt like she could turn to for comfort. That is not unusual, so she eventually went back to him. The hearing for the restraining order is on September fifth, and less than ten days later, she and Andy are engaged. Which I know might sound unbelievable to somebody who hasn't lived through abuse.

**[0:36:23] Brit Prawat:** But it it's the reality of Yeah, and it.

**[0:36:25] Ashley Flowers:** I actually, I want to dive more into this a little bit later. And I'm gonna have something important at the end of Heather's story because I think it's so important to understand. But I do wanna get through Heather's story first. So Christy gets back with him, but surprise, surprise, things don't get better. Christy says that Andy even convinced her to go on the stand and say that the abuse, like all the stuff she put in that restraining order, didn't happen.

**[0:36:52] Ashley Flowers:** And when we asked Andy for comment, he said Christy is an admitted perjurer, implying that she's lying. Christy says that their relationship is on and off until she was able to walk away for good in 2019. That same year, she spoke with detectives. She said that Andy never really talked about Heather's death with her, so she didn't have any insight into what happened that night, but she could speak to what kind of partner he was.

**[0:37:16] Ashley Flowers:** She told them about Andy's alleged fetish for sexual assault scenarios. And she also says that one time, while they were having sex, he asked Christy to hold Heather's ashes so that he could be having sex with both of them. Now, she refused, and he's like, Oh, don't ever repeat that. I was just kidding. Now, it took until November of 2019 for Christy to finally be done with Andy. And he had moved on by then, too, and was dating the woman who is now his current wife, Kelly.

**[0:37:51] Ashley Flowers:** But Andy didn't seem to be totally done with trying to wreak havoc on Christy's life. Because Christy told us that out of the blue, she got a message from somebody saying, basically, you're awful for what you did to Andy and his family, and that she is the one that should be dead and not Heather. And Christy is like, hold up, like, what are you talking about? Well, turns out, Andy allegedly had been telling at least one person that Christy was his and Heather's nanny.

**[0:38:23] Ashley Flowers:** And that they planned this whole thing where Andy contacted Christy through an app and told her where Heather's gun was in the car. And then she supposedly climbed through a window in the bathroom and shot Heather. Andy allegedly told this person that when he heard the noise, he assumed it was done, so he walked into the bathroom and saw Christy crawling out the window, noticed the bullet was laying on the floor, and, like, hands it to her through the window.

**[0:38:49] Brit Prawat:** I'm sorry, wait, who's he saying this to? Because it like, he's not just saying that she was killed, he's admitting to being involved, and this is not, like, ever part of And he, any story,

**[0:39:02] Ashley Flowers:** I don't know what to make of this. Because, like, okay, take Andy out of the story, like, or being part of it. Like, Andy has never said anything to your point publicly about Heather's case, other than it was a suicide. Like, there's never even been so much as another theory floated by him.

**[0:39:18] Brit Prawat:** I mean, is this person making it up?

**[0:39:20] Ashley Flowers:** Well, Christy says she fully believed that he told this woman that story, but she is clear with us. She's like, I was not involved in this anyway, and she has never been considered a suspect by investigators. And this is something that maybe I wouldn't have even mentioned if it were just the Facebook message that she got. Except there it was, like the same account in investigative records, not from Christy, but it's from an informant who says that Andy was drinking a lot and intoxicated when he told her pretty much the exact same thing.

**[0:39:55] Brit Prawat:** I mean, and was Christy the informant?

**[0:39:57] Ashley Flowers:** No, somebody who said that they heard it directly from Andy. And the informant also tells detectives that Andy said a neighbor gave a statement saying they saw someone running from the back of the house into a vehicle to, like, speed off.

**[0:40:11] Brit Prawat:** Made a statement? Is it in the records?

**[0:40:14] Ashley Flowers:** No, so, like, this is what I'm saying. I don't know what this is, and it doesn't really go anywhere. Like, we know there wasn't even a bullet to pass off, right? Like that was in Heather's head. Maybe they meant shell casing, but revolvers don't eject those, and there was an empty one in Heather's gun. So almost any way you slice it, that part of the story can't even be true or right. But there is this one little piece of the story that nags at me.

**[0:40:42] Ashley Flowers:** So, according to the informant, Andy told her that when he was on the phone with nine one one, when he opened the window back up to pass her the bullet or the shell casing, or whatever it could have been. When he does this, a little alarm went off.

**[0:40:58] Brit Prawat:** that's such a specific detail.

**[0:41:00] Ashley Flowers:** It is, and the weird part is I do hear an alarm in the background of the nine one one call, like a minute and a half in. Here, I want you to listen to it. Okay, Andy, listen to me. What is an intersecting road to Boggs Trail? Oh, come on. Now, how, how, how? So rude.

**[0:41:20] Brit Prawat:** So what was that alarm?

**[0:41:22] Ashley Flowers:** I don't know. It is driving me absolutely wild. I don't see any records from the alarm company in the case file, so I don't know if they ever pulled those or got to the bottom of why the alarm went off. Was it set all night? Like, I mean, now I have a million questions about the alarm. I don't know. I don't think this story is true. I definitely don't think Christy was involved in anything. I just don't know why someone, Andy or otherwise, would make up that story.

**[0:41:51] Brit Prawat:** I mean, did they test the gun for DNA, like, just to be sure?

**[0:41:55] Ashley Flowers:** They did, and the only DNA profile that came back was on the trigger, and it belonged to Heather, which is one of the pieces of evidence that supports the theory of suicide. Gunshot residue testing, by the way, also were positive on Heather's hands.

**[0:42:11] Brit Prawat:** I mean, did they even check Andy's?

**[0:42:13] Ashley Flowers:** Well, they did. They swabbed him on the scene the day that they responded, and the results ended up being negative. But, and big but here, they ask Andy if he has washed his hands recently. And the investigative records say that he first says no, then he says EMTs did wash his hands for him, though. I'm sorry, what I don't know how that happened, like, it's nuts to me. Investigative records also show that Andy changed out of his bloody shirt and they didn't even collect it.

**[0:42:48] Ashley Flowers:** So even though detectives are gathering a ton of evidence to suggest that Heather was trying to escape an abusive situation, that she was just about to leave and was even going to be with someone new, they can't ignore some of this physical evidence.

**[0:43:05] Brit Prawat:** that they do collect?

**[0:43:07] Ashley Flowers:** Yeah, like the DNA on the trigger. So instead of closing the case, they just let it stay open, but without anyone really doing anything with it. Which doesn't sit right with a lot of people who loved Heather. I mean, she actually didn't have a lot of family. Her mom died when she was nineteen, and she had a rocky relationship with her dad that she was working to mend. But she did have an aunt that she was close with, and some really good friends who just could not look the other way when this case stalled out.

**[0:43:38] Ashley Flowers:** I mean, they felt in their bones that Heather would never have left her daughter like that. I mean, I've seen so many pictures of Heather and her daughter together. I mean, there's this one in particular that I can, like, feel like it is so clear that she loved her, and I'm sure she loved her other kids too. And listen, people can love their kids and struggle, people can love their kids and even take their own life.

**[0:44:01] Ashley Flowers:** But there were too many elements of this case that bothered her family. And it's more than just Heather's circumstances with Andy. They were hearing things, they were seeing things that just weren't adding up. So they started a Justice for Heather Turner Facebook page that got some local traction, and with that came the public scrutiny of Andy. In the aftermath of Heather's death, Andy writes in his book that he and his family were constantly dealing with harassment, both online and in person.

**[0:44:36] Ashley Flowers:** They had to move schools, neighborhoods, uproot their life. But ever the optimist, he says that life turned around when he met his current wife, Kelly, who he had actually met in a grief counseling class.

**[0:44:48] Brit Prawat:** Does he meet all all of his wives in counseling?

**[0:44:51] Ashley Flowers:** I don't think he was at least, like, the counselor this time. I'm assuming that he was there to get counseling as he dealt with Heather's death.

**[0:44:57] Brit Prawat:** So was she his counselor?

**[0:45:01] Ashley Flowers:** So no, according to his book, Kelly's husband had died.

**[0:45:06] Brit Prawat:** I know I've said the name a million times, but this is exactly like the Micah Miller story. Like, didn't He's JP's new wife also have oof, a husband who died?

**[0:45:12] Ashley Flowers:** yeah. Either way, he seems happier, but I don't know if things ever really let up for Andy. If anything, they might get worse when Heather's case gets featured on a TV show and goes from local to national in 2022. That's when all the rumors and the speculation that had been swirling locally and in that Facebook group get laid bare, alongside all of the evidence that Heather's friends and family were having trouble reconciling with. Stuff that I haven't even told you about yet.

**[0:45:45] Ashley Flowers:** And this TV show had a surprise source who from the shadows came forward to say that they saw something on Heather's body and just before her funeral that has them very concerned that the truth is being covered up. But that is in part two. Our Crime Junkies can listen right now in the Crime Junkie Fan Club by going to Crime Junkie dot com, or you can come back next week for part two of Heather Turner's story.

**[0:46:18] Ashley Flowers:** And you guys, October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month. We have spent a lot of this episode talking about domestic violence, and we are really passionate about supporting organizations that help people who are experiencing DV, especially here in Indiana, where, don't know if you know this, the federal government has slashed funding for domestic violence services. So this month, we are pledging 175,000 to nonprofits that are doing the work, supporting survivors of intimate partner violence and prevention.

**[0:46:49] Ashley Flowers:** And we wouldn't be able to do that without your support. So thank you, Crime Junkies. Stay safe. We love you.

**[0:46:57] Brit Prawat:** And if you're actively trying to leave an abusive situation and need immediate help, please reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline by texting start to eight eight seven eight eight. A real person will be on the other end, twenty four seven offering crisis support. The second is womenslaw dot org. They provide state specific legal information about protection orders, custody, housing protections, and more.

**[0:47:21] Ashley Flowers:** Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production. I think Chuck would approve.

**[0:47:33] Brit Prawat:** Growing up in a small town, I know how deeply a crime can shake a local community. And I know that what makes the headlines is rarely the full story. That's what Kylie Lowe explores on her show Dark Down East. She digs into cases from Maine and New England using original reporting, archival records, and conversations with the people who knew them best. Each episode takes you inside the communities these stories shaped and the families who never stop searching for answers.

**[0:47:56] Brit Prawat:** Listen to Dark Down East wherever you get your podcasts.

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