# Verdict in UNC student trial. Influencer's alleged conspiracy to murder. Plus, handwriting analysis. - **Show:** Dateline NBC - **Published:** 29 Oct 2026 - **Source:** https://www.nbcnews.com/dateline - **Transcript:** https://podcasts.opennash.com/shows/dateline-nbc/verdict-in-unc-student-trial-influencers-alleged-conspiracy-to-murder-plus-handw-223902/ - **Provider:** OpenNash Podcasts (machine-generated) ## In brief This episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly follows four stories. A North Carolina jury convicted Miguel Salguero Olivares of murdering UNC student Faith Hedgepeth, a case that rested on DNA and a disputed handwritten note. Other segments cover the alleged murder-for-hire plot by influencer Gabbie Gonzalez, updates from two trials, and a handwriting expert's explanation of how his field works and where it falls short. The main arc is how evidence of different strength is used. The Hedgepeth verdict came after years of silence and rested on DNA, while handwriting evidence was shown to the jury as supporting material. The expert admits that his field is more subjective than people assume. The Gonzalez case remains only allegations, as she and the others have pleaded not guilty and the criminal case is far from trial. ## Key insights 1. **DNA, not handwriting, anchored the Hedgepeth case** Prosecutors said Salguero Olivares's DNA matched the rum bottle used as the weapon and samples from a rape kit. The handwriting comparison to the takeout bag note was offered only as extra support. 2. **The defense called no witnesses at all** Instead it cross-examined the DNA expert, who agreed she could not say when the DNA was left, and pointed to the roommate's account. The jury still reached a unanimous guilty verdict in about six hours. 3. **Prosecutors offered a motive only at closing** They suggested he met the women at an apartment cookout and was rebuffed, which could explain the note on the bag. They admitted no witness put him at the cookout. 4. **The Gonzalez plot case is still only allegations** Prosecutors say her father paid $10,000 and her ex Kai Cordry tried to hire a hitman, who was actually an undercover FBI agent. All three defendants pleaded not guilty and no criminal trial date has been set. 5. **Handwriting comparison is more subjective than assumed** Expert John Osborne says accuracy depends on training and experience. He says all-capital block letters on a paper bag are very hard to compare, and that age, injury or illness can change writing over nine years. ## Questions this episode answers ### What was the verdict in the Faith Hedgepeth murder trial? The jury unanimously found Miguel Salguero Olivares guilty of first-degree murder. The judge sentenced him to life without parole and ordered him to register as a sex offender for life. His attorneys have given notice of appeal. ### How was Salguero Olivares identified after nine years? Producer Mike Narkewicz says investigators found him using genetic genealogy. Prosecutors said his DNA matched the suspected weapon, a rum bottle, and samples from a rape kit. ### Why is influencer Gabbie Gonzalez in trouble with the law? Prosecutors accuse her of conspiring with her father and an ex-boyfriend to hire a hitman to kill her ex, singer Jack Avery. She and the others pleaded not guilty and are out on bond. ### Did a hitman really get hired to kill Jack Avery? No. According to prosecutors, the 'hitman' was an undercover FBI agent, and Avery is alive and well, so the scheme never went anywhere. ### How reliable is handwriting analysis in court? Expert John Osborne says it is more subjective than many people realize, and accuracy depends on training, experience and following standards. He adds that comparing block capitals on a paper bag is very hard, and that writing can change with age, injury or illness. ## Facts - **Jose Diaz-Balart** [0:02:30]: "On the night of September the sixth, 2012, Faith, a sophomore at the University of North Carolina, went to a nightclub with her roommate, Karina Rosario." - **Jose Diaz-Balart** [0:03:02]: "Then, in 2021, investigators arrested Miguel Salguero Olivares, a man with no criminal record and no known connection to Faith." - **Speaker 3** [0:04:04]: "Now, Salgero Olivares, like Faith, lived in Chapel Hill. He was nineteen at the time of the murder and working at a local restaurant." - **Speaker 3** [0:04:04]: "prosecutors said his DNA matched the DNA found on the suspected murder weapon, which was a rum bottle found tangled up in Faith's comforter on the bed." - **Speaker 3** [0:06:41]: "but they got her to admit that she couldn't say when that DNA was left on Faith. It could have been there for days, as a matter of fact." - **Speaker 3** [0:07:10]: "But that friend testified that he saw something that looked like blood on Karina's finger when he picked her up." - **Speaker 3** [0:07:39]: "Not one witness. The defense did not call one single witness." - **Speaker 3** [0:10:23]: "it took around six hours of total deliberation over those two days." - **Speaker 5** [0:11:45]: "This jury, having found you guilty of first degree murder, this court will sentence you to life without the possibility of parole." - **Speaker 5** [0:17:26]: "Prosecutors say that Francisco, Gabby's dad, was the money bags of this operation, and that in early 2021, he transferred $10,000 to Kai for the purposes of hiring that hitman." - **Speaker 2** [0:17:51]: "They say that in May of 2021, Kai signed up for a dark web murder for hire site under the alias Lizard King sixty nine." - **Speaker 5** [0:18:15]: "He was actually in contact with an undercover FBI agent posing as a hitman on the website." - **Guest** [0:19:13]: "prosecutors say Gabby spoke with Kai over the phone in a recorded call and expressed concerns about the plot being exposed." - **Guest** [0:22:09]: "A former boyfriend of Gabby's named Cody Claiborne took the stand. He testified that he met Gabby in June of 2021. They were living in Hawaii at the time." - **Jose Diaz-Balart** [0:26:53]: "Farwell killed Sandra to prevent her from disclosing their years-long sexual relationship, which they say began when she was a minor, just fifteen years old." - **Speaker 3** [0:27:47]: "His name is Jason Pickard. He's thirty seven years old now" - **Speaker 2** [0:28:33]: "He told the jury that Sandra reached out to him through social media in December 2019 when he was working as an army recruiter" - **Speaker 2** [0:30:15]: "Two of the brothers, thirty nine year old Oren and forty year old Tal, were luxury brokers making millions of dollars selling expensive properties in New York and Miami." - **Speaker 2** [0:30:53]: "They estimated the brothers raped or sexually assaulted as many as seventy women." - **Speaker 2** [0:32:42]: "she sentenced each of them to thirty years in prison, describing their conduct as monstrous." - **Speaker 5** [0:34:41]: "Over the course of a forty two year career, I worked the People versus Santa and Kenneth Kimes" - **Speaker 5** [0:36:35]: "It generally is a situation where a person is asked to write for between an hour and a half and three hours, or even more than that." ## Transcript **[0:00:00] Ad read:** This is the story of the one. 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See Capital One dot com for details. **[0:01:00] Interviewee:** Hey, come on. **[0:01:01] Jose Diaz-Balart:** It's the start of another work day for the Dateline team. **[0:01:04] Guest:** Couple people are flagging this from the West Coast. **[0:01:07] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Our producers are catching up on breaking crime news. **[0:01:10] Interviewee:** So he was always the suspect. **[0:01:11] Speaker 5:** And what did you say the the motive is? **[0:01:13] Guest:** They believed that boyfriend was the mastermind. **[0:01:18] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly. I'm Jose Diaz-Balart, NBC News anchor and the host of Dateline in Español, filling in for Andrea Kanney. It's October twenty ninth, and here's what's on our docket. In a Los Angeles civil courtroom, five months after Gabbie Gonzalez, a TikTok influencer, was arrested for allegedly conspiring to murder her ex-boyfriend, he tells his story for the first time. **[0:01:43] Speaker 2:** Jack did seem nervous. He had a lot on the line. **[0:01:46] Jose Diaz-Balart:** We'll also have an update for you from the trial of the former Massachusetts police officer accused of murdering pregnant teacher's aide Sandra Burchmore. And details from the sentencing of the three Alexander brothers, once known for their lavish lifestyles, now facing life in prison for sex trafficking. They came face to face with some of their victims this week. **[0:02:08] Speaker 5:** One woman made this so so poignant statement. I carry a quiet funeral for the person I might have become had this not happened to me. **[0:02:17] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Plus, handwriting analysis. We'll talk to an expert about whether it belongs in the courtroom. **[0:02:22] Speaker 3:** I would consider the examination of handwriting as being a bit more subjective than many people realize. **[0:02:30] Jose Diaz-Balart:** But before all that, we're heading to a North Carolina courtroom for the final chapter in a case that has hung over the college town of Chapel Hill for nearly fifteen years. The murder of nineteen-year-old student Faith Hedgepeth. On the night of September the sixth, 2012, Faith, a sophomore at the University of North Carolina, went to a nightclub with her roommate, Karina Rosario. The two women returned to their apartment in the early morning hours, but Karina left to visit another friend. **[0:03:02] Jose Diaz-Balart:** When she came back a few hours later, she found Faith beaten to death in her bed. For nine years, the case went unsolved. Then, in 2021, investigators arrested Miguel Salguero Olivares, a man with no criminal record and no known connection to Faith. Prosecutors indicted him on several charges, including first-degree murder and rape. They said his DNA and fingerprints had been detected at the crime scene. He pleaded not guilty. This month, he finally went to trial. **[0:03:34] Jose Diaz-Balart:** The prosecution called twenty three witnesses, but it wasn't until they delivered their closing arguments that they offered the jury an answer to a lingering question. What allegedly drove Salguero Olivares to kill Faith Hedgepeth? Dateline producer Mike Narkewicz has been following the trial closely. Mike, great to see you. Thanks for having me, Jose. Mike, you've been in North Carolina covering this trial, and you're there right now. Give us a quick reminder of what the prosecution alleges tied Salguero Olivares to the crime. **[0:04:04] Speaker 3:** Investigators found him using genetic genealogy. Now, Salgero Olivares, like Faith, lived in Chapel Hill. He was nineteen at the time of the murder and working at a local restaurant. Uh, prosecutors said his DNA matched the DNA found on the suspected murder weapon, which was a rum bottle found tangled up in Faith's comforter on the bed. And they also found his DNA in samples taken from a rape kit that was done on Faith's body. **[0:04:30] Jose Diaz-Balart:** The prosecution's final witness was the lead investigator, and he suggested one other way Miguel could be traced back to the crime scene. **[0:04:38] Speaker 3:** Right, one of the last things the prosecutors presented and had the investigator talk about was a a white takeout bag that was found on the bed next to Faith's body. And on that bag, there was a handwritten message that read, I'm not stupid, bitch, jealous. So the prosecution wanted to link that handwriting on that bag to the defendant. And so what they had the lead investigator do is talk about a video jail call that Salgero Olivares had made uh, to a friend. **[0:05:09] Speaker 3:** The audio wasn't working, the connection was bad. So at one point, Salgero Oliveras holds up a handwritten note, and the note says, Give me your number, I'll call you. Um, which isn't important. What's important and what prosecutors wanted the jury to see is that that handwritten note that he held up was very similar in their mind to the writing that was on the takeout bag. **[0:05:32] Jose Diaz-Balart:** But that video actually might have backfired on the prosecution because of what the defense did next. What did they do? **[0:05:39] Speaker 3:** Well, the defense pointed out that the person Salgero Oliveras was speaking to was a dear friend of his, and she has since passed away since that call. And so what they did is they had the entire video call played before the jury. And you could see that this young woman and the defendant obviously cared for each other. **[0:05:59] Speaker 5:** I know. I was like, surprised, damn. I was like, who was coming to me? I haven't seen him in forever. Yeah, I wish I could hear it. Hey, I love you. **[0:06:07] Speaker 3:** And at one point during the call, Salgero Oliveras in the courtroom begins to start crying, audibly sobbing. So I think it gave jurors a sense of who he was outside the courtroom, um, as a friend that people cared about, someone who had feelings. **[0:06:22] Jose Diaz-Balart:** That attempt to humanize Salguero Olivares is something the defense has been doing from the beginning of the trial. Their main argument to the jury is that Salguero Olivares and Faith might have known each other, that it's true his DNA was at the scene, but what's to say they didn't have some kind of consensual encounter? **[0:06:41] Speaker 3:** That's right, you know, the defense vigorously cross-examined the prosecution's DNA expert, not to get her to say that it wasn't the defendant's DNA, um, but they got her to admit that she couldn't say when that DNA was left on Faith. It could have been there for days, as a matter of fact. The defense also argued that perhaps investigators had been a little sloppy in how they processed the crime scene. But, you know, the the biggest question they raised for the jury is about Faith's roommate, Karina. **[0:07:10] Speaker 3:** She was one of the first witnesses that testified, and she was very, you know, forthcoming in that she had been drinking heavily that night. And she said she left Faith alone in the apartment, a friend picked her up. But that friend testified that he saw something that looked like blood on Karina's finger when he picked her up. And the defense wanted the jury to ask themselves if maybe there was more to her story. **[0:07:33] Jose Diaz-Balart:** So, Mike, who did the defense call when it came time to present their case? **[0:07:37] Speaker 3:** Well, they didn't call anybody. **[0:07:38] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Nobody? **[0:07:39] Speaker 3:** Not one witness. The defense did not call one single witness. And, you know, that's not uncommon, that does happen, but this was in stark contrast to what they promised the jury in opening statements. **[0:07:51] Jose Diaz-Balart:** So that brings us to last Thursday when closing arguments began. And Mike, this was really interesting. The prosecution offered jurors a possible motive for Faith's murder for the first time. **[0:08:01] Speaker 3:** Right, right. The prosecutors explained that there had been a cookout at Faith's apartment complex that night, and they believe that Salguero Oliveras might have been there and may have encountered Faith and Karina when they returned home from the nightclub. So their theory was that Salguero Oliveras may have approached the two women, was trying to flirt with them. We know that Karina was very drunk. They wondered if Faith may have been trying to protect Karina, and Faith may have rejected him or said something that embarrassed him. **[0:08:31] Speaker 2:** It's not a leap to suggest that he came up to try to engage. And Faith said, What are you stupid? Can you not see? She is sick. Go away. So the prosecutor's suggestion Right. **[0:08:42] Speaker 3:** was that that could explain the message on the takeout bag. I'm not stupid, bitch, jealous. **[0:08:48] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Now we should say prosecutors admitted they couldn't prove that happened. **[0:08:52] Speaker 3:** Right, right. No witnesses placed the defendant at that cookout. **[0:08:57] Jose Diaz-Balart:** But prosecutors told the jury that even if we never really know why Faith was killed, the forensic evidence showed who did it. **[0:09:04] Speaker 3:** Exactly. And they told jurors that when Salguero Oliveras was first questioned by investigators, a moment caught on body cam, he denied knowing Faith or ever having sex with her. **[0:09:14] Interviewee:** Do you know this girl? No. You don't know her? No. **[0:09:18] Speaker 3:** Why would he do that? They wondered if he just hooked up with her but hadn't killed her. **[0:09:23] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Mike, then it came time for the defense closing arguments, and they reiterated what they'd said from the beginning, that Faith and Salguero Olivaris could have had a consensual encounter. **[0:09:34] Speaker 3:** Yeah, and they had an explanation for why Salguero Olivares denied having sex with Faith at the start. He didn't remember her. **[0:09:42] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Why wouldn't he be going out and maybe sometimes sometimes having too much to drink, forgetting things, forgetting encounters? Why wouldn't he sometimes have an intimate encounter with somebody, maybe even on a one-time basis, and not tell anybody else about it? He was a teenage boy. **[0:10:01] Speaker 3:** So the defense said investigators, uh, sort of had tunnel vision and focused only on Salguero Olivares once they identified him through DNA and then tried to make the rest of the evidence fit the theory. **[0:10:14] Speaker 2:** They have not proved their case. Hold them to their burden. He's not guilty. **[0:10:18] Jose Diaz-Balart:** So the jury got the case on Thursday, and Mike, by Friday, we had a verdict. **[0:10:23] Speaker 3:** Yeah, it took around six hours of total deliberation over those two days. **[0:10:28] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Take us inside the courtroom for the moment when that verdict was read. **[0:10:32] Speaker 3:** So just before they returned, the judge warned everyone in the courtroom to remain composed. Then Salguero Oliveras was asked to stand up and face the jurors, and then the clerk read the verdict. **[0:10:42] Speaker 2:** We, the twelve members of the jury, unanimously find the defendant to be count one guilty of first degree murder. **[0:10:49] Jose Diaz-Balart:** And Mike, immediately after the verdict was read, Faith's family got to address the court. Her mother, Connie Hedgepeth, spoke first. **[0:10:56] Speaker 3:** Um, you know, it was incredibly touching and emotional, and she even expressed sympathy for Salguero Olivares' family. **[0:11:03] Speaker 2:** I knew that I had to forgive, and I do forgive. My heart aches for his family. We try to raise our children the best we know. It just seemed like it was such a a senseless and cruel act. **[0:11:19] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Faith's father also spoke. So **[0:11:20] Speaker 2:** He did. He he just like Faith's mom said he had forgiven Salgero Olivares. **[0:11:26] Interviewee:** My heart's ripped out and it's like there's this hollowness there, you know, I can't feel it. But uh, the God I serve tells me that I have to forgive, uh, the person who did this. **[0:11:41] Speaker 3:** And after hearing from Faith's family, pretty quickly, the judge handed down the sentence. **[0:11:45] Speaker 5:** This jury, having found you guilty of first degree murder, this court will sentence you to life without the possibility of parole. **[0:11:55] Speaker 2:** Salgero Olivares was also ordered to register as a sex offender for life. **[0:11:59] Speaker 3:** And his attorneys have given notice of appeal. **[0:12:01] Jose Diaz-Balart:** And Mike, the judge, Keith O. Gregory, also had some powerful words about the crime itself. **[0:12:06] Speaker 3:** He did, and he talked about the brutality of Faith's murder and how difficult it was to comprehend why someone would do something like this. **[0:12:14] Jose Diaz-Balart:** But he was also struck by the forgiveness, Faith's family's forgiveness. **[0:12:20] Speaker 3:** Yeah, and I think that really stayed with him. He addressed it directly. The grace that you have bestowed and shown me as a judge just reminds me that I will continue to the best of my ability to do always the right thing sitting up here. And your ability to forgive just gives me the ability to say yes, Keith. There is still goodness in mankind. **[0:12:46] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Mike, thanks for staying on top of this case and bringing us all the details from the courtroom. Really appreciate it. **[0:12:50] Speaker 3:** Thanks, Jose. **[0:12:53] Jose Diaz-Balart:** If the Faith Hedgepeth case has piqued your interest in handwriting analysis, stick around. We'll be talking to an expert. And coming up, a TikTok influencer and the former boy band member she's accused of trying to have killed face off in court. **[0:13:11] Ad read:** A strange thing happens when you put off finishing your college degree. Maybe next semester turns into five years, and the thought is still lingering, waiting, haunting you. 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Back in May, news broke that influencer Gabbie Gonzalez, known for her posts about lifestyle and motherhood, had been arrested. LA. prosecutors accusing a TikTok star of trying to hire somebody off the dark web to kill her ex. That ex was Jack Avery, former boy band **[0:15:38] Speaker 2:** And the father of Gabby's child. A couple have been mired in an ugly custody dispute for years. Prosecutors accused Gabby of conspiring with her own father and a different ex-boyfriend to seek out a hitman to murder Jack. All three pleaded not guilty and were released on bond. Last week, Jack and Gabby came face to face in a Los Angeles courtroom. **[0:16:00] Guest:** Dateline booking producer Caitlin Cutts is there and is here to bring us the very latest. Caitlin, it's great seeing you. How are you? **[0:16:07] Speaker 2:** Hi Jose, I'm great. How are you? **[0:16:09] Guest:** Doing great, thanks. So let's rewind a little bit here. Paint a picture for us of who these people are. **[0:16:14] Speaker 5:** Jack Avery is twenty seven now. He's a former member of a boy band called Why Don't We. **[0:16:21] Speaker 2:** He's also working on launching a solo career. He posts a lot on TikTok. What is up, guys? It's Jack Avery. I just had about 180 milligrams of caffeine, and I'm absolutely ripping through this day right now. **[0:16:35] Speaker 5:** Uh, Jack dated Gabbie Gonzalez in the late twenty tens when they were both teenagers. **[0:16:40] Jose Diaz-Balart:** They were not together very long, but they did have a child together in 2019. And Gabbie Gonzalez got famous on TikTok. Yeah, right now she's twenty five years old. She's originally from Florida. She has hundreds of thousands of followers on TikTok and Instagram. She posts glamorous content, you know, she does stuff in front of waterfalls and gardening and the wind blowing through her hair, and it's all very scenic. You know, it's a lifestyle account. **[0:17:04] Speaker 2:** Just wanted to share some of my rooftop thoughts. I am now by myself again, and it has been incredibly empowering, incredibly hopeful, and I don't know. I I just I learned that I just need me. By 2021, **[0:17:20] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Jack and Gabby were in the midst of this tense custody battle. How did things end up in this alleged murder plot? **[0:17:26] Speaker 5:** according to the felony complaint, prosecutors allege that Gabby plotted with her father, Francisco Gonzalez, who's a successful attorney in Florida, as well as her former boyfriend, Kai Cordry, to find someone to commit murder. Prosecutors say that Francisco, Gabby's dad, was the money bags of this operation, and that in early 2021, he transferred $10,000 to Kai for the purposes of hiring that hitman. **[0:17:51] Speaker 2:** They say that in May of 2021, Kai signed up for a dark web murder for hire site under the alias Lizard King sixty nine. **[0:18:00] Speaker 5:** And he asked for someone to kill Jack by quote, whatever method was easiest. **[0:18:07] Speaker 2:** And over the course of the next few months, prosecutors allege that he transferred thousands of dollars to accounts associated with the murder for hire site. **[0:18:15] Speaker 5:** So Kai thought he was working with a hitman, but there's a twist here. He was actually in contact with an undercover FBI agent posing as a hitman on the website. And in September of 2021, prosecutors allege that the undercover agent spoke with Kai over the phone to discuss the scheme. During that phone call, prosecutors say Kai confirmed that Jack Avery was the target of the plot, and they discussed payment and proof of death, which in this case was specifically a severed finger. **[0:18:44] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Oh my gosh, so far you've mentioned Francisco and Kai. How can prosecutors be sure Gabby was involved in this? **[0:18:51] Guest:** Hm, well, they say Kai told the undercover agent Gabby wanted the job done. Now, she never spoke to the fake hitman herself, as far as we know, but they say her dad, Francisco, did. **[0:19:04] Speaker 2:** As we know, Jack Avery is alive and well. The scheme never went anywhere. **[0:19:08] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Over three years passed between those alleged phone calls You know, and the arrests. What happened? **[0:19:13] Guest:** You know, it's a good question. Um, we don't know for sure what took so long, but there's a bit more of that timeline leading up to the arrest. So, in October of 2022, which is almost a year after Gabby's dad allegedly spoke to the hitman slash agent, prosecutors say Gabby spoke with Kai over the phone in a recorded call and expressed concerns about the plot being exposed. We don't know who recorded that call, but a month later, Gabby's home was raided by the FBI. **[0:19:34] Guest:** Then there was another gap before authorities made arrests. Once the criminal case gets going, I think we're gonna find out a little bit more, uh, regarding the investigation. **[0:19:38] Speaker 5:** Which is almost a year after Gabby's dad allegedly spoke to the hitman slash agent, prosecutors say Gabby spoke with Kai over the phone in a recorded call and expressed concerns about the plot being exposed. We don't know who recorded that call, but a month later, Gabby's home was raided by the FBI. Then there was another gap before authorities made arrests. Once the criminal case gets going, I think we're gonna find out a little bit more, uh, regarding the investigation. **[0:19:48] Speaker 2:** and as we mentioned, the three alleged co-conspirators pleaded not guilty. They're out on bail while the criminal case has been making its way through the court system. Custody proceedings have also been ongoing in civil court. And that brings us to this custody hearing last week. **[0:20:03] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Set the scene for us. Jack Avery and Gabbie Gonzalez sitting just feet from each other. **[0:20:08] Speaker 2:** Jack Avery and Gabbie Gonzalez sitting just feet from each other. **[0:20:08] Jose Diaz-Balart:** What was the mood like inside the courtroom? **[0:20:09] Speaker 2:** What was the mood like inside the courtroom? **[0:20:10] Jose Diaz-Balart:** You know, it's a civil courtroom, right? So it's tinier than these bigger criminal courtrooms that you and I go to sometimes. It was incredibly intimate. Like you say, they were feet apart. They never looked at each other. Gabby was very stoic. She didn't offer up a lot of emotion throughout really most of the process. Jack did seem nervous. Uh, he had a lot on the line. **[0:20:30] Speaker 5:** What was the purpose of the hearing? **[0:20:33] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Jack already had a restraining order against Gabby. He wanted the judge to extend it. He also asked for sole custody of their daughter, who is seven years old as of now. **[0:20:43] Speaker 2:** It was really interesting, Caitlin, because it's the first time we've really gotten to hear from Jack Avery since the arrests in May. What did you learn? You're right, it is the first time. Jack testified that the FBI contacted him in 2021 to inform him that he was being targeted by a hitman and somebody who had hired this hitman. And he testified that after the FBI told him about the alleged plot, he was left afraid with severe anxiety and a panic disorder. **[0:21:09] Speaker 2:** He talked about every time he went to go visit his daughter, he wasn't sure if this was gonna be the moment that somebody was gonna try to, you know, make an attempt on his life. It was really sad, actually, to hear him talk about all of this going on while he was just trying to get access to his kid. **[0:21:23] Guest:** Caitlin, we're talking what, five years with that uncertainty? **[0:21:29] Speaker 2:** Yeah, I I think that, you know, the other anxiety that that was running through my mind when he was going over this is, you know, you're worried that somebody's gonna take a hit out on you. What if your child is with you when this happens? I mean, that's horrifying. It's a horrifying thing to contemplate. **[0:21:46] Guest:** They they didn't tell him that the hit man was one of them so that he didn't have to worry about it. **[0:21:52] Speaker 3:** He was just told they had intercepted, uh, requests to take a hit out on him, but they couldn't guarantee that whoever had taken this hit out wasn't contacting other people. **[0:22:02] Speaker 2:** That's okay. Like, there were some other witnesses who testified about what it was like being around Gabby at the time of the alleged plot. **[0:22:09] Guest:** Right. A former boyfriend of Gabby's named Cody Claiborne took the stand. He testified that he met Gabby in June of 2021. They were living in Hawaii at the time. Cody said he didn't know anything about the alleged plot until the FBI raided their home. He testified that he confronted Gabby after the raid and asked her what was going on. He said that she told him Kai, who was her ex-boyfriend at this point, was quote obsessed with her and wanted to help her get rid of Jack. **[0:22:37] Speaker 2:** That's interesting. I mean, could it be **[0:22:40] Jose Diaz-Balart:** A glimpse of what Gabby might try to say at the criminal trial, but she's not to blame for any of it. Did Gabby testify at the hearing? No, she did not. Her lawyer informed the judge that she decided not to testify. So what did the judge decide at the end of the hearing? **[0:22:59] Speaker 2:** so? **[0:22:59] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Any comment from Jack or Gabby afterwards? **[0:23:03] Speaker 3:** No, Gabby did not issue any comments. Uh, Jack did speak to Rolling Stone and said, quote, I'm overwhelmed and happy at the same time. **[0:23:13] Jose Diaz-Balart:** So Caitlin, what's the status of the criminal case? **[0:23:16] Speaker 3:** The next hearing on the criminal case is scheduled for November eighteenth, **[0:23:20] Guest:** But there's still a really, really long road ahead before any trial happens. **[0:23:24] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Caitlin, thank you so much for these updates. Oh, thank you so much for having me, Jose. Up next, we've got the latest from the trial of the former police officer accused of murdering pregnant teacher's aide Sandra Burchmore, and details from the sentencing of luxury real estate brokers and now convicted sex traffickers, the Alexander brothers. Plus, forgeries and ransom notes. What investigators can learn from handwriting analysis. **[0:23:54] Speaker 2:** Navigating the healthcare system is a full-time job. 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Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to Quince dot com. **[0:26:05] Ad read:** Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. Remember to note Dateline in the post-purchase survey. **[0:26:23] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Welcome back. Here with some updates on two stories we've been watching closely is Dateline producer Sue Simpson. Sue, great seeing you. How are you? I'm fine, thanks, and thanks for having me. Up first, we're checking in at the trial of Matthew Farwell in Massachusetts. He's the former Stoughton police officer accused of killing twenty three year old pregnant teacher's aide Sandra Burchmore back in 2021. Farwell says he didn't kill her, has pleaded not guilty, saying Sandra wasn't murdered, she died by suicide. **[0:26:53] Jose Diaz-Balart:** We've talked these past few weeks about the prosecution's case against the former cop, Sue. Remind us what they're alleging. Sure, sure. They are alleging that Farwell went to Sandra's apartment, killed her, and staged her murder to look like suicide. They say Farwell killed Sandra to prevent her from disclosing their years-long sexual relationship, which they say began when she was a minor, just fifteen years old. Farwell has denied having sex with Sandra when she was underage. I This week, the prosecution called their final witnesses, including someone we've all been curious about. **[0:27:26] Jose Diaz-Balart:** The man they say was the father of Sandra's unborn child. Remember, prosecutors have argued that Farwell believed he was the father, and that fed into his motive for killing Sandra. But DNA testing after Sandra's death revealed the father was someone else. The prosecution called this man to the stand. Sue, what was that moment like? **[0:27:47] Speaker 3:** Well, it was it was quite a memorable moment, Jose. His name is Jason Pickard. He's thirty seven years old now, and according to our affiliate, NBC ten, when Pickard walked by the defense table, **[0:27:58] Speaker 5:** Farwell gave him an up and down look, a sort of sizing him up look. We learned from Pickard's testimony that the two men had never met until that moment in court. **[0:28:09] Jose Diaz-Balart:** And so this could have been a a tricky moment for the prosecution. Here was a witness who could have undermined their theory about Farwell's alleged motive. **[0:28:17] Speaker 2:** That's right, Jose. It's possible the prosecution, though, wanted to put him up before the defense did. But he also told the jury that through his own relationship with Sandra, he had a front row seat to Sandra's relationship with Farwell. **[0:28:31] Jose Diaz-Balart:** How did he say that he met Sandra? **[0:28:33] Speaker 2:** He told the jury that Sandra reached out to him through social media in December 2019 when he was working as an army recruiter, and they talked about Sandra pursuing a career, a possible career with the army. Their relationship, though, quickly turned into something else, and they started seeing each other and having sex. **[0:28:52] Jose Diaz-Balart:** So Pickard testified that about a year into their on-again, off-again relationship, Sandra texted him that she was pregnant. How did he react to that? **[0:29:01] Speaker 2:** Well, he replied, Congratulations with a question mark at the end. And she replied, I'm trying to get the father to sit down. And he replied, Me? And she said, Nope, we weren't in my fertile period. Pickard testified that Burchmar always told them Farwell was the father. **[0:29:20] Jose Diaz-Balart:** So did prosecutors ask Pickard what he knew about Sandra's relationship with Farwell? **[0:29:25] Speaker 2:** Yes, yes, he was asked about that, and he testified that Sandra told him the relationship began when she was a minor, and he said he encouraged her to report that. Prosecutors asked him why he didn't report that himself, and he said he was afraid to. He essentially said it would ruin his family, his career, and that he was respecting Sandra's request not to say anything. **[0:29:48] Jose Diaz-Balart:** The prosecution rested its case on Wednesday, and we will be back with the defense's case next week. Next, we are heading to a Manhattan federal courthouse for the highly anticipated sentencing of Orin Tall and Alain Alexander, three wealthy brothers who were convicted earlier this year of sex trafficking and other related crimes going back twenty years. So it's been quite a stunning fall from grace for them. **[0:30:15] Speaker 2:** A stunning fall. It really has been. So just a little background here, Jose. Two of the brothers, thirty nine year old Oren and forty year old Tal, were luxury brokers making millions of dollars selling expensive properties in New York and Miami. The other brother and twin to Oren, thirty nine year old Alon, worked in the family's private security business, but all three of them were well off and they moved in really exclusive social circles. In a sentencing memorandum, prosecutors said the brothers exploited their wealth, influence, and connections to target their victims and called them serial rapists. **[0:30:53] Speaker 2:** They estimated the brothers raped or sexually assaulted as many as seventy women. **[0:30:58] Jose Diaz-Balart:** So the trial suit was seven months ago. Heading into the sentencing on Tuesday, prosecutors asked the judge to sentence the brothers to life, saying that's what the scale and severity of their crimes deserve. But before the judge ruled, she got to hear from several of the brothers' victims. **[0:31:15] Speaker 2:** That's right, and about a dozen women gave statements. They were incredibly powerful and emotional. One woman who went by a pseudonym and said she'd been raped by Tal Alexander in 2014 made this so, so poignant statement. I carry a quiet funeral, she said, in me for the person I might have become had this not happened to me. Two other victims described the man as having inhuman eyes during the assaults. One felt like she was being mauled by animals. **[0:31:44] Speaker 2:** The other said, looking at him, she saw monster black eyes. And some women said the brothers appeared to lack remorse throughout their five week trial earlier this year, and another noted that the brothers cannot even look us in the eye as we speak today. **[0:32:01] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Wow, Sue, that statement, I carry a quiet funeral in me for the person I might have become. **[0:32:07] Speaker 2:** I know I find that so moving. **[0:32:10] Jose Diaz-Balart:** What an extraordinary statement. Now, Sue, the brothers still maintain their innocence to this day. Did the brothers speak at all? **[0:32:17] Speaker 2:** The three of them spoke, and all three of them asked for a lighter sentence and seemed to blame hookup and party culture for their behavior. Oren said that he'd built a new life and family. Tal expressed regret and asked the judge to consider the entirety of his life before deciding his sentence, and Alon was the last to speak. He insisted he was innocent. **[0:32:39] Jose Diaz-Balart:** So, Sue, what did the judge decide? **[0:32:42] Speaker 2:** Well, she sentenced each of them to thirty years in prison, describing their conduct as monstrous. **[0:32:49] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Sue, it's great seeing you. Thanks for sharing these updates with us. **[0:32:53] Speaker 2:** Nice to be here. Thank you. **[0:32:59] Jose Diaz-Balart:** For our final story, we wanted to take a closer look at something that got our attention at the Faith Hedgepeth trial. Handwriting analysis. As we talked about earlier, prosecutors argued that Miguel Salguero Olivares's handwriting resembled the note scribbled on a takeout bag found next to Faith's body. **[0:33:16] Speaker 3:** I think that there's evidence to show handwriting that was written by this defendant. **[0:33:20] Speaker 5:** All of these, including the writing on the bag, none of their own cursive. They are all in block print handwriting. **[0:33:27] Jose Diaz-Balart:** It made us want to know how often is handwriting analysis used in a trial, and how scientific is it really? Joining me now is John Osborne, a court-qualified forensic document examiner. John, great to see you. **[0:33:40] Ad read:** Good to see you as well. **[0:33:41] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Forensic document examiner sounds so technical. How did you get into this kind of work? **[0:33:46] Speaker 3:** Well, in my case, which is somewhat unusual, I began uh as an apprentice under my father in a uh family practice in which I was the fourth generation and began a training program towards obtaining certification in the field. **[0:34:02] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Wow, so John, let's talk about handwriting analysts. How accurate are they? **[0:34:07] Speaker 3:** Well, accuracy depends upon the adherence to standards. I would consider the examination of handwriting as being a bit more subjective than many people realize. Accuracy not only depends on training, but also in terms of experience. Uh, the more experience you have, um, the greater, uh, the accuracy becomes. **[0:34:32] Jose Diaz-Balart:** John, I was thinking about cases where handwriting analysis might come up, obviously forged documents, ransom notes. What are some of the more striking cases you've worked on in your career? **[0:34:41] Speaker 5:** Over the course of a forty two year career, I worked the People versus Santa and Kenneth Kimes, who were accused of murder a mother and son grifter team, uh, who had conspired to, uh, steal or grift, uh, an older Manhattan socialite. I, uh, testified in, uh, the El Chapo case more recently. I worked, uh, **[0:35:06] Speaker 3:** The Robert Durst case, but most of the cases I deal with have to do with civil disputes, you know, a a questioned will signature, or, uh, the potential that a contract was altered, uh, or **[0:35:20] Speaker 5:** changed in some way, nefariously. **[0:35:22] Jose Diaz-Balart:** So let's talk about how you do this analysis. Taking the Faith Hedgepeth case as an example, how would you go about trying to figure out if a suspect had written something left at a crime scene? **[0:35:33] Speaker 3:** well, you know, it's my understanding that this note was written on an unconventional surface, Well, paper bag, and then on top of that, it was all capital letters. It makes, uh, it very, very difficult to do. So, what we're doing is taking specimen writing, uh, from an individual for the purpose of comparative analysis, uh, so that we can determine whether or not the, **[0:35:59] Speaker 5:** uh, questioned writing is, uh, consistent in all respects with the known specimen writing. **[0:36:08] Jose Diaz-Balart:** John, when a person is asked to write something, how much weight can that document have when the person who's being asked to write knows that whatever they write will probably be used to compare and contrast with other writings? **[0:36:25] Speaker 3:** and you're absolutely correct. And writing is done specifically at request for the purpose of a of a comparative analysis. Are the least desirable, but there's a protocol that we follow in order to collect those specimens. **[0:36:35] Speaker 5:** There's a protocol that we follow in order to collect those specimens. And it's not a five minute process where somebody is asked asked to write something six times on a single sheet of band paper. It generally is a situation where a person is asked to write for between an hour and a half and three hours, or even more than that. In the case of the of the, uh, Sante and Kenneth Kime prosecution, uh, there was a total of six hours of writing, not all in one sitting, that were collected in order to, uh, attempt to associate them with certain questioned writings in that case. **[0:37:12] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Fascinating. So, John, in the Faith Hedgepeth case, the bag was found by investigators nine years before anyone was arrested. Doesn't nine years change so many things in the handwriting aspect? **[0:37:26] Speaker 2:** It depends on a number of circumstances. Injury, illness, age are all things that can affect rating. Circumstances. Age **[0:37:34] Jose Diaz-Balart:** John, fascinating stuff. Thank you so much for your time. **[0:37:37] Speaker 3:** It was my pleasure. Thank you for having me. **[0:37:40] Jose Diaz-Balart:** That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly. But if you're in the mood for something spooky, don't forget to check out a whole new season of Morrison Mysteries. Keith reads tales by Edgar Allan Poe. **[0:37:53] Ad read:** Since it's Halloween, of course, it'd have to be mysterious, suspenseful, perhaps a little creepy. Maybe a story about a man who pulled off the perfect murder until his guilty conscience slowly ate away at him. Or one about a black cat who crossed paths with the wrong killer. **[0:38:14] Jose Diaz-Balart:** To get ad-free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline Premium. And remember, you can watch Dateline in Español, hosted by me, every Saturday on Telemundo and streaming anytime on Peacock. Thank you for the privilege of your time. Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Carson Cummings, Caroline Casey, and Kiani Reed. Our associate producers are Ellery Gladstone Groff and Aria Young. Our senior producer is Liz Brown Kurloff. Production and fact-checking help by Carol Chen. Veronica Mazeika is our digital producer. **[0:38:51] Jose Diaz-Balart:** Rick Kwan, our sound engineer. Original music by Jesse McGinty. Paul Ryan is executive producer, and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline. **[0:39:01] Speaker 2:** Thanks very much. Toyota trucks are equipped for your journey through mountain peaks, desert trails, and weekends off-grid. Whether you're heading out solo, packing up the family, or towing your gear, there's a Toyota truck designed to fit your lifestyle. Choose from the Forerunner, Tacoma, Tundra, Sequoia, and Land Cruiser to take you off the beaten path and discover something new about the world and yourself. 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