Kate Berlant

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PayPal Inc. NMLS nine one zero four five seven. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Good Hang. We are very excited about our guest today. It is Kate Berlant, comedian, writer, actress. And if you know Kate's work, you are obsessed with her, and if you don't know it that well yet, you are going to become obsessed. Because Kate is here and we are obsessed with her. And we're gonna talk about so many good things today.

We are gonna talk about, um, well, uh, chimney sweeps. We're gonna talk about our obsession with our phone. We're gonna talk about how men actually feel about funny women. And we are gonna talk about her new comedy special Parmesan, which is on HBO out right now and is so good and I cannot recommend it enough. Before we get talking to Kate, we always do something on our show where we talk to someone who knows our guest, has a question to give me about our guest.

And we are gonna talk to another fellow hilarious performer, writer, actor, John Early. You might know John from Search Party, you might know John from Maddie's Secret and the many various hilarious videos and specials that him and Kate have done together. So let's see if we can get John on the phone or the Zoom, however, we're talking to you, John. Hi. This episode of Good Hang is presented by PayPal. Brighten up the start to the festive season by getting ahead of the holiday rush.

Shop your favorite online stores with PayPal this holiday, like Sephora for gift sets, Target for toys and electronics, and TikTok Shop for fashion, apparel and gadgets. Check out with the flexibility to pay now or pay later and split your payments with Pay in four with no interest, no late fees. Shop now with PayPal Pay in four. Subject to approval. Learn more at PayPal dot com slash Pay in four. PayPal Inc. NMLS nine one zero four five seven.

Shut up, what do you say? I don't ever wanna watch the really good thing. John Amy Amy Oh my god, it worked. Amy You know what? I never really noticed, and I'm noticing right now how blue those eyes are of yours.

Shut up, dude, that's really sweet. Well, they are. You what They do you mean?

are blue.

Blue eyes? I'm kinda far back, or you're kinda far back, are you? You're blue?

I'm blue as well. Yeah, Okay, well, and I just read somewhere that we should be wearing sunglasses all the time. no, you're good Yes, my

because it's it's we're. We're more susceptible to, like, vision to sun damage.

damage eyes, sun damaged eyes.

Wow, I have 2020, no offense,

Oh, brag. No, I do not. You still have 2020.

I still do somehow.

That's incredible.

All right, thank you.

I do not. I've got reading, I've got glasses for reading, and it's going downhill really fast.

Kate has reading glasses. You guys could talk about that.

John Early, it is really good to see you.

It's so good to see you. I'm so starstruck. You're nuts, I am. Yes,

John, right back at you, you know, we shut were we. We up. were watching, we were rewatching Vicky with a V and Maddie's Secret, uh, before we get got on and we were. We were saying, like, there are certain people when they, um, when they portray female characters, that it feels like aggressive. Uh, and you,

they're working through something.

they're working through something.

Well, and I clearly am too, Of well, but

we all are.

it's maybe it's maybe more, um, coming from some sort of childlike longing and not necessarily an aggression.

No, it feels very nice, it feels Thank like it feels you. very like. It just makes me feel nice and safe. It doesn't make me feel weird

Oh my god, thank God,

for people that don't know. You and Kate have created so many works of art together, thank you, and you are like partners, but not partners. You do your own separate things always. But when you come together, there's like this special language, like there's a comedy language. But it always consists of this very thrilling deep dive into something like it's always really deep and always funny.

thank God.

When did you first meet Kate? Let's talk about that origin story.

We first met when I was, I guess we were both like twenty four, um, which was last year.

thank you. and uh, Thank you.

we, uh, we met, like, Okay, we met basically doing our mutual friend's comedy show. And, uh, you know, I, I just had never met someone around my age who, uh, who was as funny as, like, my idols, you know it. It was so crazy. I always figured, you know, the people around me were were all gonna be kind of collectively trying to get to that level. We'll spend our whole lives and we'll always a and we'll, we'll always fail, you know, we'll always fall short.

But sh, I was like, she is just like, right there, she's already there, she's like, already in a Christopher Guest movie, you know, in my mind. And that night when we were separating, we were just kind of like, we kind of like, said our vows to each other. And we were like, we were like, let's have us like a sleepover tomorrow. And we just like, started our friendship the next day. We just like, knew and and and I went over to her apartment and we.

We just did not separate really until she moved to LA. We spent like almost every single day together, every night together. I would literally run out of clothes, I would run out of underwear and from spending the night at her apartment so much. And I would just go to CVS and get a pack of Hanes and I'd wear the same shirt and pants every day, and I would just run out of Hanes and go get a new pack.

because you're like, there's no way I'm leaving this apartment.

I am not going back to my apartment, I refuse. And we and Amy, we slept in the same bed and we literally, and the room was as big as the bed. Her like, there was a foot of space on on, uh, the on one, two sides of the four. It was tucked into a corner, you know, and we would just we slept like angels, like that was the first thing we noticed. It was like we were like, what is this like?

Otherworldly sense of comfort we have with each other that we can share a bed?

I'm sure you've been asked to explain this, but the stuff that you guys did together, how would you explain that type of comedy if you were to have to explain the style of it? I can try, but I'd like oh my god, to hear, I'd like to hear what you say.

okay, um, okay, yeah, it's. It is really hard. I mean, obviously, one thing that we love to do is like, you know, passive aggression, you know, we, we love it so much.

why do you love it so much? why do you you know, go? Why does Kate love it so much? Why do you love? S? I mean, I do too, but what do we love about it?

well, I think I think I love it, cause I come from like the South and W, which is like a a really, you know, it. You could say the the birthplace of mass incarceration. Um, like, I come from kind of like Protestant world, where like that is just in the water. It's just like you don't, you don't express your anger, so you ha, it has to come out another way. I think for Kate, she's a she's been around a lot of authoritative, um, c artistic people.

And I think maybe that's where it comes from is like people who speak with a kind of like, I mean, uh, avant garde authority or whatever. It's like, th. There's a there's a way that that can be incredibly hostile, you know, while e. Even if you're speaking in this very measured, academic way, you know, you're like, and I, and so maybe that's where it comes from for her. Um,

there there's like a way in which you guys play around. And in her new special, she does in Parmesan, her new special, she does this where you play around with superiority, like that's what you, you definitely, put that coat on and take it off. And of course, the other side of that is inferiority. Always.

right, it's like, and I think that if w if we're playing people who? And this is, I think actually Kate's specialty is like this, um, this, like the foolishness of like authority. And, um, you know, yeah, that's so well pretentiousness, superiority, said. I hope so. The certainty part is Yeah,

so real because especially like in today's culture, like we're surrounded by experts.

it's so intense and I and I really, I I think it's time for Kate to kind of like, seize her throne as like the great imitator of those things she really can. Like, what? What's so crazy about working with her is like, I mean, it's like, it's awful for me because it's like, I'm like a crosser. I'm like, cool, I have nothing. I'm like, I'm just like, how do you? I'm always shocked, I'm really,

I'm very sorry, but I disagree. I feel like I'm gonna say right here, John, that your volley is. It is like Agassi and Sampras. I believe they played together. I hope they did, but it is that the my god, back and forth is it is Federer and Nadal.

thank you. Excuse me. Well, you'll notice that I'm always, I'm like, always screaming.

Yeah, well, l Louder is funnier.

Well, I think she's also, and I'm sure you'll get into it minute one. But you know, she's an only child, and so there's like, there is such a the only child has to like, entertain themselves in the mirror, you know, and and and she comes, you know, artist father, like, you know, she was around these very at a very young age. I mean, she was like, under the table, uh, you know, as like w, with all these like, kind of very like genius.

LA. modern artist, abstract artist, probably having incredibly pretentious, indecipherable, illegible conversations, incredible. you know? And so I think she literally learned before she was, like, even conscious, she learned how to like, imitate, just like, absorb those sounds and like to in order to participate, cause she was bored. You know,

okay. Do you have a question for Kate today? Anything you think I should ask her?

I have a few that y you should pick from, Okay, great, like some of them are just they're kind of inside jokes. great, perfect, But I actually think if you get into them, they will be deep, fantastic, they'll be generative. Okay, so one is, Do you miss Paris?

fantastic. Do you miss Paris? Perfect question.

one is, Uh, do you think you're funny?

Oh, incredible. In Kate's special, she goes deep on this idea that comedy isn't funny and it's incredible, cause I well, agree.

yes, it's not funny. And also this is like, this is something that m we we make ourselves laugh very, very hard. We'll just like, if it's like, suddenly a silence falls, like there's like a lull in the conversation. I'll be like, Do you think you're funny? and like? And and then we'll, and we'll try to answer, and she'll do it back to me, like, Do you think you're funny? and then and then I'll be like, Do you think I'm funny?

And then we're like, Um, can I be honest? I mean, it's it's a favorite, it's a favorite Fantastic, inside joke, but I do think it like it's an inside joke. But she, if you actually ask her, something could come out. great, Um, one is, How are the kids?

perfect questions.

Oh, um, one is related to the special. So are you gay or what?

Yep, we're gonna get into it. Hopefully. Kate really talks about how she's gay. That's, I guess that's the way the fastest way to put it. Yep, okay, great. Are uh. And you gay or the final what

one is shoes on or off,

shoes on or off?

like as a host?

These questions are incredible.

And did you get my, uh, email about Kate's no fly zones? No, I'm Okay, it's really gonna look. Okay, long. Yeah,

got good to know I'm gonna look at it right now. good. Good, thank you for that, thank Uh, cause you for that,

she doesn't have a manager and they no one will represent her. So I've taken it on as for doing her special.

thank you for that. Yeah, that's important to see, and thank you we're really for bolding everything excited. and all caps. I appreciate that.

That's okay. Okay, bye John, Bye now. bye y'all woo hoo

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You may want to do that, you gotta get in like this, Amy, you gotta We g get that fast now. Is we there who?

we gotta, we gotta get you in frame. We cannot speak unless we're Yeah, yeah, don't rolling.

scroll past.

You look amazing.

There there were lipsticks in the green room and I thought I was like, God, this is so classy. Like everyone who comes, you get like, you get this huge box of lipsticks. And I'm going, Hm, I'm looking at the colors. And then I asked and they were like, Oh, um, yeah. Jennifer Lawrence left those a few a few months back. And so you've had mon, you have had months of guests who look at that. They go, I'm fine, I don't need to engage in that.

I look at it. I already texted it to my mother, my partner, my best friend. I'm like, we made it and taking I'm

it home, actually. Now you have to, because you've touched all of them.

well, they were, they were unused. Like, well, this is definitely a gift. This is a promotional gift. It i it absolutely Yes,

is a gift. Now it is you're taking all of those lipstick home.

anything free.

Kate Berlant is here. Kate on the drive over here. I just wanna give you s, I wanna give you a compliment. I'll I give it to you

by the way, I receive many. them well. I'm not one of these who me. No, good, I'm like, please, okay,

Driving over here, I was filled with glee, cause I was like, this conversation is gonna be so fun, so funny, so deep. I love seeing you and never get to, and like, this is a chance to just actually hang out with you. I loved your special. I watched it thank you, last night. It's so thank you for watching good.

it. Thank you.

Oh, you're welcome, because I don't always watch all of the things.

Well, I figure I was doing dishes last night and I go, by the way, she's not gonna watch it and I was fine. I I go, she's so busy. I

sometimes I it's like, I if you had can't get to it.

said to me, You know, I love you, couldn't watch it, girl. I would've been like, Of course, you have so much to do the media that you're, it's too much.

I couldn't wait to watch it and then all of us watched it.

Oh, thank you.

Love it. But more than that, you are this giant brain avant garde, interesting artist who is also warm and nice. It's hard to find those two things.

thank you.

Sometimes people are like, really nice, but maybe not adventurous in their art, and sometimes people are like, really prickly, sharp, interesting artists who maybe don't wanna talk. You to me are like the perfect combination of those two things. You talk about things that I am obsessed with everything in your special. It it's hitting me in such a deep way and I love your work and you. So, Kate Berlant, is here

okay, by the way, that was bye. all on a prompter just for people at home. It seems authentic. She I saw her and I go and then everything she said, Um, no, I love you so much. You're thank you. That's like, I, I, that's such kind words. That means so much to me. And I grew up with a picture of you on my wall. I mean, it's something that you get to that. Well, you know what, I told you this.

I had the Upright Citizens Brigade manifesto printed out on where the words, where the T text gets really, really tiny at the bottom. Like, I'm very like,

we, we have had the pleasure of being in each other's simulations for a lot of our lives. We we have, and like the topics that you talk about always speak to me. But this latest special is,

Oh, I can't wait.

okay, I wanna start there before we get into the bigger picture of your life. Because it is so top of mind. And you talk about the things that I love phones and our love of my my phone is my best friend. Hair

yeah, I talk about hair.

Well, I talk about your hair in my mind when I watch it,

yeah, yeah, totally thank you. Okay, you don't talk great.

about hair, but I wanna talk about your hair. It is

I got a haircut three days ago. Can you believe it? The woman thank that cuts my hair, you. Did she's amazing.

you with the haircut?

Go on Fairfax, go get her. She goes a few times, I go, she only cut like an inch, just an inch. She goes. I want extreme length for you, and those words, I want extreme length for you, I want extreme length for you. And now people, I'm like, it's extreme length, I'm not gonna go well, I'm not going waist, I noticed but

that your hair was longer than usual and I was, I was thrilled by it. I love thank you, extreme length for you.

okay, thank you.

Um, also, you talk about the hell of being a woman and how you, you know, rather have it no other way. Basically, like the combo of, like, what we are, what we are always negotiating with, and that we wouldn't trade it for anything. Like, that's what it feels like when I hear your work. And so for people, um, who are do, who are maybe getting to know Kate for the first time on this podcast. Kate is a comedian, an actress, and um, artist, and she has a new special, uh, on HBO called Parmesan.

And I would, I would, if you don't mind,

if you're not already laughing, then don't even bother tuning in.

I mean, but why is it called parmesan?

Why is it called parmesan? So, you know, you hear this thing, people go, Oh, here's a temp title. I'm not gonna call it parmesan. That would be insane. And it's one of those things that just I. It was just it was making me laugh, cause it was just so ridiculous and stupid. I think, like, I was talking to Chelsea Peretti and she was like, Oh, you're doing a a special, what's it called? I said, Parmesan, and she laughed.

And I was like, okay, cause it, it's just so deeply unserious and ridiculous. And what could that possibly relate to? And by the way, the special isn't about food in any way. right, even When you though you you are,

love to talk about food and you love restaurants. I mentioned restaurants, but Yeah,

but, uh, but no parmesan. If when when you watch the special, you'll see it does reference a joke in the in the special. and But

and not to to, uh, to spoil the joke. But it's about this idea of what we comment on, w what draws us to comment as people on social media and on our phones. Like, what we think is a way in which we're gonna connect with what we're reading and the existential dilemma of that. Can you talk a little bit about how addicted you are to your phone? Because I am, too, and I genuinely, genuinely, genuinely am.

I relapsed so hard. Do you do So,

you have work? A program?

by the way, I have gone to ITAA meetings, Internet Technology Addiction Anonymous. I don't know if I'm supposed to say that. I, I, I actually would, No, there there I would love is no step.

save a seat for me as they like to say,

I've done, I've done the zooms twice, but but still, I was still, I shared. But I like, we do need help, cause I. We are in the fight for our lives. And it's the kind of thing that it's become. It's like the weather, it's like this thing that we're just in. And it kinda feels like, why bring it up, why talk about it? But I, I can, you know, I've gone on on. I was. I had six weeks of sobriety, I did a six week cleanse, nothing, I've done, I've done a month a few times.

okay, can you just step me through this? What do you mean by nothing?

okay, so nothing me in a room, no, so what it is is by nothing. I mean, no social media whatsoever. So I still have email and I'm still texting twenty four, seven and doing anything else. but no scrolling No scrolling,

and no e. Yeah, and n not looking at Instagram reels no social and TikTok and no media, none social media, not of that, posting anything.

none of that. And the six week was really good. And I said, I go, I'm not going back this time. I was telling everyone I was like, No, I'm out, yeah, no, I'm out, I'm, I'm out, and I am right back. And like last night, I found myself, I was like, got home late and I was like, I've had a long day of working. You know what? I'm gonna unwind, I'm gonna curl up on the couch and I and I'm.

And that's the moment when it becomes infused with this feeling of rest, like this is rest, and it's not, it's actually chipping away in the digital labor mines. And so I, you know, and I'm like, and so, I mean, I have it in the bath now,

of course, I have it of course, in the bath.

cause, cause, cause. I was doing baths, no phone, and I go baths, no phone. And suddenly it's 1904, and I'm a novelist, and it's like, and by the way, when you go off your phone, I have found three weeks of no scrolling memories. I'm driving, childhood memories, like it's unbelievable. I'm like, I'm back in the kitchen and I'm ten years old and my father comes in. Like, like, it's like my brain is like, thank you.

It's opening up and it's flooding me with images. And and it's like, you just start to think again, you start to be more intimate with your life. And that's the thing that's the most devastating. We can talk about, of course, the the, you know, the the, this, the horror machine of this, and like the fascistic machine of it and all of that. But then just on the base level, like on a personal, psychological level, like you've lost all intimacy with yourself.

And like, that's the cri, that's the the the crisis of it. It's just so devastating. this is, And when, and once you get a little bit of that intimacy, you're like, all right, no, this is actually, this is really medicinal.

I I mean, this is why I love talking to you. You can, we can go deep end so fast, and then you also have jokes, okay, me, um. Another thing that chilled me to the bone and made me laugh out loud, um, while I was listening to the your special on my phone, I watched it on yeah, of my phone. I'm so sorry course, of course. Yeah, is, um, the idea about how men say they wanna be with funny women, but they hate funny women.

Is

let's go there.

funny? It is it like it? It's giving me a flush right now, actually, if you think about it. It was so funny. Th now the the idea, the sentiment of like, funny women being a threat isn't a necessarily a new

right, of course.

one. But the way in which you present this idea, which is, let me just for a minute trouble this, what? And and present what men actually want. What do you think in your way? That is like, can we talk about that for a second? How did you come up with this? Yeah, just a lifetime of being well, I can actually funny.

tell you. So I. There's this like central memory, which I've been like a ham and a goof since I was like a baby, right? But I remember. So I went to an all girls school and I'm strung if my girls are going to single sex, okay, you got to separate the girls. do you like See sweetie,

single sex? school? Did you like being?

what do you think, sweetie? Yeah, Yeah, he likes, free and then never free again, graduated and was never free. Yeah, no, I, I like, thank God. And I started comedy. I did stand up for the first time when I was 17 at my high school. I read So it's like,

this in the basement of your high school. yeah, so But anyway,

but. But so I was always, of course, you know, the class clown, all of that. And then I re. One day after school, I was 1415, maybe 15 after school with really cool and like a cool guy, like after school. There's like two cool guys in the room, drum kit, listening to Neil Young Harvest. Like, What's this? And I'd be like, doing that, uh, with my friend who's a gorgeous like pack sun model, you know, like, truly, and she's over there.

And I'm here, like, like, talking to the guys. And this guy who was like the really popular cool guy. He was laughing and he was like, God, you know, you're really funny. I was like, Yeah, he was like, you should be careful, though. Guys don't like funny girls, cause it reminds them too much of other guys. I remember I was leaning against the wall, I was l sitting on the bed like this, leaning against the wall, and it was like, by the way, thank you for the truth and the honesty.

I was gonna There it is,

say that, I was gonna say, that's un an unbelievable gift. there it is, There it is. and and He was not wrong.

I heard it, it went in and I went, Yeah, I'm gonna carry this weight for the rest of my life. And it and it was like, it, it's really so so. Yeah, I've been kind of like, teasing that out.

Yes, well, because also there's a the the bigger thing also behind it is. There's obviously like to be funny is to be a little embarrassing, and men hate being embarrassed

Uh, everyone's like, what it's like? No, it's cause you're going good, good, good. It's like, that's why they're not kissing you that well, but but like, but it is, it's like,

it's, but it's convincing.

it's manifold. And by the way, if you, I wanna just say this to clear the record. Of course, there are guys who like F, you know, of course, I've of course, dated them, you've dated, we've all. They have,

have we, though?

of course, they exist. It's like, this does exi exist. It is true. It's like, if you're doing comedy, you're, you know, it's a historically masculine role, you know, in society, whatever it. It just creates this like rupture, it's like a weird, like gender performance thing that people are like, oh, like, it just it's, it's

yes, rupture, exactly right.

a divine rupture, I might argue, a We need a divine divine rupture. Yeah, rupture, one that's needed yeah,

in our culture. There's people who were voted class clown women, and in my school, the class clowns that were women were like, bad, bad girls.

you know what's funny? So I was a good girl in the sense that I slept at the foot of my parents bed, you know, my entire life. Emotionally, I was at the foot. And so I was like a good girl, like, loved school, loved my friends. Was like, teacher, teacher, you know, like, I, you know, um, but I did have a little bit of, like, the the mischievous, like, Okay, I so a bit of a prankster, benevolent pranks, never hurt anyone.

But I'm recalling live, which is amazing, cause on the drive here, I go, What are the stories? What's my life? Oh, there's nothing, and then I'm going, it's coming up, it's coming up, I'm having memories, okay, so like, something that I used to do was, you know, like the big drop down, this is, this is. I could be arrested for this, actually, the big drop down. Maps like at school of the world, in, uh, America. So my little thing that I did is like, I'm gonna steal those for my, for my bedroom.

So I, uh, so I would jump up, unscrew them and walk out. And if you're walking, if you're 16 and you're walking with the the map of the world out of the class, they go, Oh well, she's supposed to do that, obviously, someone asked her to move that to the basement or whatever. So I really got my rocks off doing that. And I do have a bit of a klepto, I've I know squashed it, I, I.

I but

also have a bit of a klepto.

well, I mean, women and and stealing and kleptomania is very interesting and very. And because in a world where we feel like, you know, we've been stolen from, I love it's the only what you've said W. Yeah,

about makeup, how you feel that women should be able to steal.

yeah, safely and from B, you know, not mom and pops, but from the big guys. Take a little blush, it's fine. take a f. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, we deserve you're owed that blush, cause the blush is mandatory. Yeah, right, and Yeah,

nobody's paying for it. The government is not paying for our blush.

tampons and blush, that should be free.

Um, and then you also speak about, um, the difference between dating men and dating women. Cause in the special, you, uh, congratulations, you are gay now. Congrats.

Bye Amy, confuse Amy. Okay, are I say, you gay, say, as a shorthand, cause a lot of people now, you know, bisexual, you know, bisexual, femmox. And they go, Oh, what? You kissed a girl in the eighth grade, right? I'm going, No, I'm living that life, actually. Yeah, I mean, this is so funny, cause I talk about something special, like

You talk?

I'm genuinely obsessed with sexuality, my sexuality, and it's like, I also think there's this. Like, I grew up with this narrative of like, if you, you know, come out later in life, it's cause you had this secret. And you were like, jerking off in private, and you're like, No, no, no, you know what I mean? It's like, that's not what my life was at all. Like, I just was like, always with men, I fell in love with a woman.

This like other like room opened, and I was like, Oh, and then, of course, and then I reflect back and I go, Oh my God. And so then I can be like, whoa, whoa, wait. So was it always? I was like, my obsession with my PE teacher in, you know, fourth grade? I'm like, what's that? well, well, She was gay? Yeah, they all were no, but but like, I go back and and so. But I guess I'm less interested in, like, locking in to a certain category, mostly because I think what's interesting is like, failing, and what's funny is like failing within those categories.

Like, I'm a failed straight woman, for sure, but I'm still like, I love the mall and it's I love a beautiful, like, it's you know, like it's like, like, like, so what? But then? But but I? But, uh, like, I'm also like a failed gay gay woman.

right, if I may. The thing you said, which I have never heard articulated, which w and and that's why it was so incredible. Because you're, you're str, because you've kind of lived in both worlds, it's hot, it's hot, okay, sorry, okay, sorry, keep going. keep going. Yeah, yeah, Because you've lived in both worlds. The perspective of from kind of being like, on the other side, looking almost like back at what was like a way of living.

And the realization that you came to, which is just again the comedic realization. But, like all of your stuff, steeped in such truth, is that, uh, heterosexual relationships between men and women kind of are often helpful to women who don't wanna be seen. And it is,

there it is. it is Well, that's what fascinated me, cause I was like, and by the way, I've had beautiful relationships with men, but it's like, it's really fascinating to. I did when I kind of started to, like, be in like, gay relationships. I was like, Oh, like, are I? I truly was like, Okay, are all women are? are women? I believe that straight women exist, but is that

for people listening.

also? Kate made a face But and I and I was like, but is that also just their way of being left alone in a way? And I was like, and there there's validity to that. And and like, obviously, I'm also speaking, like, everyone, relax, okay, I know there's straight people exactly, of that are in love and they're, course, of course, you know, screaming, laughing, whatever, but but there is. There is this inherent, um, distance, there's always distance between people, even in queer relationships, of course, but there is this like, there's this deep distance between men and women.

And I am also, I think it's hard when you're when you're a comedian, when you're a class clown, when you're an actor. I can really love the performance of being of femininity and God bless, and I am attracted to masculinity, I love that performance. So I think there's something there's something that is always strange when it's only when people don't know they're performing that it starts to get scary.

that's exactly right. Like it was. One of my questions I wanted to ask you, which is, you're very good at this. And we work with a lot of people that are good at this. Which is we can mirror what people want us to be like. Or like, we can just get in there and just be like, I'm this person. And the question for you is like, Uh, I think the the part of, like, growing up and figuring yourself out is knowing like, that's actually expensive, like it takes something.

oh yeah, oh, the way, the the full performances I'm doing in case someone sees. I was just talking about this on my podcast, Pug. But like, airplanes are really places where these performances in gender really comes comes Ooh, pronounced. So, like the other day, I was getting onto a plane and I had a a carry on luggage to put overhead. And there was a guy right opposite. And and I kinda did this thing. And he was like, Oh, like, do you want help with that?

whatever? I was like, Yeah, do you mind? sorry, you know, whatever. And then he lifted it up and then I said to him, I don't know why. I go, I have a shoulder thing, I'm trying to not aggravate.

and you made that up,

So yeah, completely, completely fake. And then I found myself going, Oh shit, now I have to kinda like, do this shoulder injury thing. I had another bag, a lighter bag to lift up, and so I kinda lifted it up. But in kind of like a like, I, I tried to overcompensate, you know? And by the way, he very well is buried buried in a book, he's not even looking. But I'm locked into the performance, lest he glance over.

And then when we landed 6 h later, I go time to get the show back on the road. And then I was doing kind of, you know, kind of

for who? for who? Amy who is watching? I know

times, you kind of think they're watching,

well, you know, who's watching? I'm w I'm watching. Like, that's the thing is like, the idea that like, who we, who are we, like, what self is the real self? Is a nonstop, delightful journey for me.

it's. It's absolutely endless. And it's like, this is, and this is where also also sex. Sorry, I said it someone That's had to who first time it's become the interesting

been mentioned here.

is like, like, and that's why I think, honestly, class clowns, and this is where it can get hard, funny, unfunny, two class clowns in bed, it can get complicated.

You're right.

Like that, I just sometimes I go, God, I don't know. You kinda need someone to go, stop, like, no, you need someone to be like, like, unselfconsciously, like, like, because you're so I do I, it's complicated.

I'm obsessed with your relationship to your own body on stage. Because, like to be looked at is already so intense, and the way you use your body to, like, ground yourself in performance is so interesting for me to watch. You like, like a dancer, I can feel the way that you when I don't know when. Uh, it. It feels like you regulate your thoughts or anxiety or emotions by the way you move.

no, I'm laughing. I love it, cause I've never heard no one's ever seen you before, so thank you being seen for the first time live. But um, no, but. But it is actually, you're right. I've never. No one's ever said that or put that. No one's ever put this to me in in these terms. But it is how I self regulate, like, and there is like, even like, it's like, it's like, that is no, no, you are correct.

And like, I, you know, love physical comedians like I Al, that's always what gets me. And like, I've made crazy faces. I can't stop, help, you know, but but that is how I get back inside my body. I think

yeah. It made me think about my own stuff.

me, me during sex. It's like, Oh God, no, but yeah,

yeah, it made me think about, like, my, uh, I, I just did it now. Like my own laughing, like, I love to laugh, and everyone's like, I love to laugh. And laughing is so good for us, and also laughing for me is expelling anxiety. Like it is a way to just like, get shake out whatever is the feeling that I'm having. And anytime dancing is the same way for me. But it takes me so long to realize that that is why I'm doing something.

Cause, I think, especially if you're like in the comedy world, or you're like a big thinker like you're s. You're just like our brain, we just I use, I'm like, brain forward a lot, and I have to remind myself I have a body.

oh yeah, oh yeah, this. no no,

Okay, um, anesthesia culture, you're talking,

yeah, I talk about anesthesia culture. Look it up if you have to educate yourself it's now.

so funny, you guys fuck. I can't give away the joke, but please watch it. But uh, why? You talk about this idea that when we're under and we come to how cocky the people are that we're awake,

It's a no. We we are, can talk about, it's can we talk a, it's a throwaway

about it?

moment in the special, I guess It's so you could say, but I funny. talk about, um, kind of going, not enjoying, going under anesthesia. Because I don't like waking up. And the idea that everyone in the room is like laughing at you, that you've been asleep the whole time. Like, it's like, if you're a performer, it's like, you're, you have to go under to go off. Like you go, it's it's like, cause it's like, I'm sure you're like me, where it's like, Oh, I can turn off.

Of course, like comedians wanna get serious, like we're like, but the only time you're free, by the way, I'm hamming it up. As I was going under, I remember this, the guy was I as my anesthesialog. I'm like, I'm like, God, you look like Griffin Dunne, why? the first one was like, like, I was going so hard. Also, cause if I'm nervous

of course.

and if I'm in a medical situation, so I have a lot of medical anxiety. This is gonna be, this is gonna be the next special, cause I just got like, a completely unnecessary angiogram.

Oh, I, I actually. I mean, we could talk about this forever, cause you, uh, I'm obsessed with this idea that we are now giving ourselves too much information, that's making us very stressed. oh, of course, Yes, and so you, you were, you had an angiogram.

I went a little hard on my neck. With a hizu Instagram, yeah, Instagram advertised to me this neck massager. I go, sure, bought it. And then I was going really, really hard and I go, Oh, it's a little too hard, it's a little too hard there. And then I start looking up and I go, Oh well, the, you know, the veins, the arteries here, you wanna be really careful, I go the arteries in the neck. Oh God, I, yeah.

And then I texted, Yeah, texted my doctor, Um, and um, she really regrets the day she gave me that. And and she was like, I'm sure you're fine, whatever, but I'm so, um, I have that kind of like sensation, anxiety and stuff that. I was like, Oh, I think something. So then I, you know, I call Cedars, I talk to the doctor and they're like, Well, we could order you a CT scan. I mean, if you wanna get an angio, I mean, what's the go in?

They inject you with, you know, your veins with, um, dye and the whole thing? And I go, Well, that's insane. So I'm putting it off, putting it off, and then I go, I could do it next week. So then I'm being wheeled into the room and everyone, you know, they're taking, they do the test and everything. And everyone's kinda looking at me, cause I'm by far the youngest people in this. So I think people are kinda going, poor woman, like, what's going on with

what's going on?

her? And so I start going, it's probably nothing. You know, a hizu, yeah, went a little hard with the hizu, let's say

Yeah, it's too much.

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Let's go to Kate as a child. Okay,

I skipped the whole kid thing. Yeah,

yeah, you were born as an adult now. one, thirty, Um, were you as a little little Kate in LA. in Los Angeles? Artist parents much like,

it was really hard. Yeah, Did you the rough side of Santa say? I was Monica, I was gonna say,

gonna say you were in Santa Monica? Um,

not in the industry. They're not in the industry. Let's just get what kind that out.

of artists are they?

Um, so my dad works in metal collage. It was funny. I was this was huge for me a few years ago. There was like a New York magazine piece about nepo babies and they and my face was in it. Next to, like, like, Chalamet, I was like, I'm famous? I'm like, what is this? And it was like, daughter of a sculptor, you know? I was like, trust me, doll hasn't gotten me work, you know what I mean?

And then, like, my mom did prop design, and she did make the Stonehenge prop in Smile. Two, famously so, and that was also there, cited as nepotism. And I go, gosh, a little bit of a stretch, it's a little bit of a stretch. But my mom, um, my mom was a stay at home mom, if we can even say that now, right? They're taking that away. So, um, but, you know, a debut creative person did you grow did theater

up with?

in her youth.

Did you grow up with artists around the house, chatting about art?

yes, that's all I'm. I'm an only child, my parents friends did not have kids, so it really was like me at the at the dinin, at the dining room table, with the adults being like, all right, so I'm gonna say two. And I think that was, you know, intensely informative.

and did you feel like, I mean, I'm sure you've spoken about it a lot? You might have talked about it in your in your specials. But what is the only child dilemma? What is None. like the best and the worst? Or is there one? is there one like, what's the good and bad thing about being an only child?

I don't know, I mean, I having siblings, I don't know. I don't really like sharing my mommy. I don't think so, Amy number one, please, yeah. So sharing my mommy would've been hard. But I think, you know, as you age, you go, Oh, it would be helpful, but then also you kn you never know what you're gonna get. I mean, people Of course, have siblings and it's not like they're helpful when when shit's falling apart. So so I don't well, your sibling know,

relationship is often the longest relationship in your life, which I. And I was like, whoa, I read that, and I was like, Wow, cause that is they, you know, like,

don't complicate it with sex, okay, never, cause, cause that's the thing, that's but really the thing don't shit where you eat.

exactly, guys. Guys, okay, If you could take away one thing from Kate, um, so you're like this, like precocious kid in a way, were you? Did you feel older than you were when you were a kid?

but I think I'm watching, I think so much of what I like through mimicry. Like, I remember, like, when I saw Aaron Brockovich, I started doing my homework in heels. You know, like like, for real. And I was like, Yeah, I'm into this. And so I think that, like watching movies, watching people like, be smart or sound smart is kind of like, Yeah, I'm gonna kinda just like, take that,

okay. And then you did, um, some crazy early jobs. And is it true that you were a voice actor in Texas for a call in radio show? oh my god, Is that true? yeah, so so Okay, what's that?

so. I don't know where I got hooked up with this. But it was a thing where you would do like, so for call in radio shows where they're like, morning radio, where they're like, Yeah. So we got here guy and a girl went on a first date. Uh, the girl, uh, let's just say she doesn't have a face or whatever, you know, like, so it's like, yeah, these like prop, these, and then, but they're being presented as real.

So I would play and they'd go like, we got we, okay, so we, we have her on the line. She has no idea that we're, that, uh, that we're listening in, so we're just gonna call. So I would pretend to be the person. It's like, hello, you know? And and and I did, I think, like, one, and yeah, it was like, and then the like, the casting woman was like, she's like, you're good at this, she's, she's like, you're good at this.

Cause there was one where I had to pretend to be crying. It's devastating. It was like they're humiliating this woman on air and I have to be like, Wait, what? I'm on the radio? No, like, really sad. I mean, that was what, send up, okay, I was doing it. Roseanne grounded, I was Laura Linney with the, you yeah, of know, uh, uh, but but course, of course, like, but of course, um, but yeah, I did that a few times and I think I'd get pay.

I mean, I think I'd, you know, I would get paid like seventy five bucks or something, I don't know, but it. But it was hor. I'd have to wake up at like four am, cause that was the only they were gonna time they could. So call you, they'd call me. I'd like wake up at that time and be like, Oh my god, no, you know, whatever, that's so and it would be, yeah, and then I slept through one.

Oh, you missed your call. Oh

They're like, they were like, we need you. Dallas radio seven am. Who knows where I was? I? I woke up, I saw the missed calls fired. Never again. I get it. yeah, being They're gonna at the arena, depend on you, cause the radio, yeah, yeah, they were, so I did that.

and they had to. Then on their side, they had to improvise, like, Oh, we can't get ahold of her. They must have been furious. weird, yeah, exactly, exactly, I mean, there is, hell hath no fury like a radio DJ.

they have to. The segment suffers and they can never bring you back.

And you know, we cannot talk about, like your early, early career, like starting out without talking about John Early, speaking of early, because John Early and you, let's talk about John for a second. Because the way you guys interact together scratches a comedic itch for so many people. W Why do you think that is? What is it amazing that? sex. Yeah, Oh my god, yes,

When you can connect on that somatic level with someone,

oh my god.

it can't help but reflect in the work. Um, John, you know, it's like, it is like, you know, one of the great loves of my life. John Early, like we did, we are. We like, met in this very like whirlwind like romantic way, where it was like we met. And then in a very lesbian fashion, like, were inseparable. And he slept in my bed for like, three years, right? And I was like, Why can't I get a man?

I was like, See, it's hard, it's different for me, yeah, and John, we met. Yeah, we met on set of a friend's short film. And, uh, we had like, he'd message me on Facebook or something, and I was like, Who's this? And then I watched a video of his and I was like, Oh, he's really funny.

We were trying to break it down today because we're such fans of your work. Uh, alone, of course, and with John, and with John. I'm not like the biggest. I get a little stressed when people come at each other pretty hard, like in comedy, like, I'm I. I. I'm not a big roast fan, like, but the way you two gently knife each other in the stuff that you do is like, fascinating to watch.

I think it's funny for us because, like, we don't. Similarly, I don't wanna be roasted or ever roast anyone. And like John is, you know, like from the south, and like John's the last like. So I think our like, that's a place for us to, like, go there and. But very much behind this, like character mask, of course. Um, but yeah, I, I don't know why. It's funny because we are like, there's been times where over the years we've been like, but we're not mean, like, like people are like, you guys are vicious, like, and it's like, No, it's not like, that's not what it is.

it's not.

I, I mean, I don't, I don't know exactly.

And it feels like there's like some border around it, that's surface level, which is always so funny. When people are not acting the way they're feeling, that's just like, inherently funny.

Well, I think that's exactly what it is. And like, we just like the failed performance, to say it again. Like when people think that they're covering and they're not, and when people are I know, using the social niceties to cover like and like. That I know is just heaven it's heaven, to us. Yeah, me too. It's yeah,

H like when someone is angry and they are like, trying to conduct a meeting or something is heaven. How are you with conflict? What's your conflict style?

what do you mean? Com, sorry, say that again, conflict? sorry, I missed it. Um,

Like when something like that happens, do you get feel? I get filled with a little bit of excitement.

adrenaline. Oh, you mean, like, wa, like to, uh, well,

Conflict is gets me.

watching people fight through the. My favorite thing in the world is screaming fight on the street, safely watching from the window. That's my that, and my heart's beating through my chest. Yeah,

Yeah, totally. Do you? Uh, do you have a like, direct conflict style? Do you? Ha? Do you feel like, what, what when you're angry about something? What does it look like?

um, it's a. It's a really interesting question that my therapist should be asking me, and she's not, so there's an issue there that we'll explore later. Yell at her, But um,

you should yell at her. maybe I withdraw, I'm, I'm wondering,

I'm probably going to go with withdraw gun to my head, withdraw. withdraw, right, Yeah, yeah, right, right, for a yeah, um, no, hundred. I think, um, I. I've talked about it a lot, so I won't get into it. But like, I had a really upsetting incident with a chimney sweep a couple years ago, I'll just say quickly, Just say quickly, he came into my home, came into my home doing a chimney sweep. I go, I go, Oh, he has like, no drop cloths, I go, okay.

So now I'm getting into the forensic details. But I was like, white couch, white thing, I just moved in, I go, Oh, do you have like? And this is, this is fine. Do you have like drop cloths or anything? And he go, and he kind of, like, laughs, he's like, I'm fine, and I go, okay, he's a chimney sweep. What? I'm gonna come in here, he knows how to do his Yeah, God job. So forbid, I go, okay, I'm gonna let you.

I go into ba, I come back. Amy sit on the white couch, sit on the curtains in the hallway. I go like this, there's s, and I'm like, there's soot in the home. And he kind of did this thing, like, I mean, Gaslight City, oh, by the way, and and here's where I, here's I. I paid so not full, cause I'm in there and the kitchen thing. And then I go, Well, I can't pay you full price.

Get the boss on the phone, those whole thing. He goes, Maybe your house was dirty, yeah, maybe sweetie, say it

your house was dirty. again, yeah, and so, And you're basically being held hostage, too. You like, you have to pay because you want him out of your house.

yeah, I want the chimney sweep gone, and I was so excited, cause I had an amazing chimney sweep. Earliers years before, I couldn't find his number and he had drop cloths and he had respect. And so, but I, I'll just say that night went to bed literally permanent TMJ, like one night of clenching from the chimney sweep and that years later. So I should be going to court. And the and the tension on this jaw, it's brought the face down, okay, so the tension on this side.

So so I'm losing work, okay, from that, so the chi, so one night. So that was an that was an experience where I could have gone harder in the moment. I didn't, cause I was just like, kind of panicked and sad by what had happened.

well, let's break down. You also didn't go harder in the moment because you've got somebody in your house and it's not a safe situation.

no, it's a man.

It's a man you know for real. And also,

that's when I wanted a husband, I go, Eric, you know, like, that's when you, that's when you want that. Yeah,

you wanna call for Eric, cause Eric, Eric comes down from his study and he's like, Hey, man,

yeah, no, exactly. And then I go, and I go, yeah, and I you, walk away

you walk away.

and they they get to have it out.

And you can hear Eric yelling a little bit and you get like, a little

and I go, Eric's getting a BJ tonight. Yeah, yeah, so that dynamic's fun, and I get that. Yeah,

um, okay. So John Early, we spoke to him before this podcast because we always speak to somebody who knows our guest. And John gave us some amazing um questions for you. oh my god, okay, Okay, so here we go. John wants to know a couple of things Do you miss Paris? Okay, John wants to know, Do you think you're funny? Yes, okay. Um, John wants to know, How are the kids? amazing. Yeah, Congrats?

uh, it's just, you know, yeah, yeah. They're at a a really fun age. Yeah, what age is yeah, yeah,

that?

just right around that area where you go, uh, huh? They're become, they're, they're them, but they're you, and it's, yeah,

You? But you do know how old they are? Yeah, yeah, okay, good, foreignish, of course. yeah.

foreignish, yeah.

Um, John wants to know, So are you gay or what?

John will do that to me. It's so funny, like he'll text me out of nowhere and go, Are you gay? Bye? What is it? Or my favorite thing, like, I'll be doing a show and John will be like, just remember, like, Oh, this show is broken because you are broken. It's really To me, the funny.

love language of comedy people is my favorite thing in the world.

He will leave a voicemail for me and he'll be like, it's just so like, like, so, like the yesterday, so embarrassed. She's she's promoting her special and she's doing these press appearances, and it's just like, Oh my god. Meanwhile, you know, HBO, they're not gonna release it. I've already been on the phone with them, they're holding it back. And there she's trotting out in her little outfits. And I'd be like, Oh my god, fuck fuck and hang up.

Oh, kill. He pretends he's he pretends that he's calling someone else, or he pretends to be her. He's accidentally leaving it on my machine. Oh my god, It's really funny,

that to me feel makes me feel so so long. Yeah, safe and loved.

yeah, yeah, it's really sweet,

And then shoes on or off off always?

and the home off.

So when someone comes to your home, do you say, please take your shoes off?

So I have a s. I have a small home, to quote the handyman who came to the house when I first moved in, and this is a direct quote Never have I seen a house so small. And that was the exact delivery, that was the exact language he used. I go, Wow, that's small. I mean, I don't have Eric, I don't have a rich husband. You know, I go, I thought, you know, Um, and then I'll just say, a couple days later, he returned and he goes, Do you have many more things to move into this very small home?

And by the way, living room, there was no couch, there was nothing. I go, Well, yeah, I have to bring in the furniture. And you go, and I go, but there's not that much. And he goes, That's good because it's so small. So cause the house is small, I don't have a grand foyer, you know, there's no sh room for a shoe rack. So we have kind of have like a horrifying pile, a little pile by the front Door.

So it depends, depending on. Uh, I'll kind of be like, take him off. If I just, you know,

Do you put on a house slipper?

Oh, yeah, I have. I have multiple house slippers.

This is what it. Thank you. Another reason why I love you, Kate, is because I know you love things and you really. And I would say that one of the things that's so amazing about you and Jacqueline and PooG, which is an incredible podcast, and congrats on that, the success of that,

Thank you.

because it's so funny and good. And you guys, for people that don't know PooG, like, deep dives into products in a way, much like how we're talking today, where Kate and Jacqueline Novak, a a super talented writer, performer. They like, talk about a red light mask and then somehow get to Dante's Inferno very fast.

yeah, it's very high, meets low, and it's very, you know, we started PooG in Covid and really kind of started as a way PooG goop backwards. Get it okay, so, and kind of as like a wellness beauty podcast, but really also just a way that we could get free stuff, which has been incredible. And so we were like, people will send us these products and then, you know, so, but. But. And also kind of this idea of like, searching for the right product and that the and the p.

There's this misconception that you wanna find the right product, you actually don't. You wanna engage in the in the search forever. The search is kind of, you know, the ego loves to search and never to find. And we'll just let that sit. Three, two, one. And so that constant manic belief that there is this product out there, this person out there, this thing out there. And then then you're gonna arrive and you're gonna be whole, and you're gonna be healed, you're gonna be beautiful.

It's like, we, we on, we on some level, we know that's not coming. But it's really fun to go and try the serum to go. I think it's doing something and to have fun, a new lipstick, a new, uh, I mean, like, there's, there's pleasure in that.

yes. And so on PooG, you guys talk about things and I love listening to it because, like you, I am in the pursuit for, like, the platonic best thing for the thing. Like, as if my life is gonna get smaller and simpler if I know, I just get the right thing. But I do wanna know what shoe you bought for your house shoe.

so this is kind of cheating because it is it was a gift, but I'm gonna go with a classic ugh, sorry, ugh. They. fine, There's so many different kinds of slippers and I, I actually, I paid out of pocket. I purchased the ultra mini um boot that's like under the ankle, almost, um, this, uh, kind Does it of like,

have a fur lining? Like, is it okay?

so, by the way, even today, 140 degrees getting into the boot first thing. You are, what, You have to keep

what? What do you? your feet warm, Uh, how do you feel about air conditioning? Uh, like, do are you an AC person? Do you keep it cool?

blasted down.

Me too.

Yeah, I mean, I really. J. Last night I was cause I sleep naked. Guys, this isn't about that. I'm here to talk about my work. But and I want an eight sleep and hi, I'm here on this pod. Hey, eight sleep, or is it? Yeah, now's the time, send them now. If that, if this doesn't get me an eight sleep, if this

This doesn't get me an eight sleep, please get Kate an eight sleep. And so I'm gonna end our talk today. I know, I know, but I you have a lot of incredible takes on things, so I wanna get your thoughts on things. They don't have to be funny, they can be whatever they, they could be, it can be whatever you want. The moon. fake, like, uh, again, Yeah, every night, like, every night. I just wanna see Yeah, something different from yeah, I mean, it does change every night, I mean, it gets,

but in the same way, do you know what I mean? But people, people change in the same way. You go, Oh, now you're doing this thing, now you're doing that thing, you're concealing this part, you're concealing that part. Oh, no, I'm, I'm right here in the open. No, you're not, cause you'll be gone tomorrow. psychics, I believe there are gifted psychics like I.

do you believe?

People are tapped in.

Do you believe you have any psychic abilities? Yeah, you do for real. Have you ever predicted Amy, yes, anything? What?

can't get into it. No, I I think we all, you know, psychologically, we all, ha, we I don't all have a little

feel like I have psychic I. I have abilities. I stuff. can read people and I can. I feel like I'm pretty good at noticing energies, but I don't feel like I have a psychic ability to figure out that out. But

I've had some some in interesting instances, but again, I'm on my phone all day, so I'm blocking all that out.

yeah, okay, good. Um, what about ghosts? Have you seen any ever? Yes, so so here's you've talked to the thing. So people, ghosts.

you look at me, long hair, you know, oh, who's this? you know, witchy, psychic ghost. Peop- I'm actually typically not. I. I don't. I don't like karaoke, for example. A lot of people think things about me, okay, so, um, and I, um, I was told not to talk about it cause then they t they they take it as a way to kinda come in. But I, I swear to God, last couple years, I'm seeing

You've been seeing some ghosts. ghosts. You have to talk to my friend Rachel Drush, cause she does. She is really into woo woo, and she kind of collects woo woo stories. I've had And

some, I've had some, like, um, I've always been scared of ghosts, and then the last couple years, I've seen a few. And actually, some s situations I would think would really scare me, no fear whatsoever, completely fine. I've had two upsetting experiences that really freaked me out. So

that's not good.

I kinda went to someone and they're like, just close the door.

Hm, hm, God. I wish I could see a ghost. I have not seen a ghost and I, I just, they just do not fuck with me, ghost. I,

you don't want it, I don't think I maybe I don't I don't know,

want it.

I don't know. I want So some, you know, some

a fun one.

people I would like to come through and I'm interested in that, but um,

yeah, maybe not. but once Okay,

you've had a couple, bad ones, you go, I'll just say but I've. I've got some special, uh, figurines on a s on my nightstand lately.

some crystals.

I was given some figurines cause I go, I don't wanna see that one anymore. Yeah,

And they were like, for twenty nine, ninety nine, I can give I know you this. hm, hm,

truly the amount of people friends I've had that have been like, and she said that for $500, she could lift the curse. I'm like, Oh, no, I I mean, people, they know, because, really,

on let, let's lift the curse for free. How about we try that? yeah. All curses I mean,

can and should be lifted for free. Yeah,

like makeup and tampons. Um, Los Angeles.

I'm from L. A. I lived in New York for ten years. I'm there all the time, but I think the um, you know, people love to talk shit on L. A. And even this conver- you know, even this feels cliche when I'm, when I'm dropping into, right? Of, kind of like people, I talk to, huh? But I, um, I love Los Angeles, you know, she can be a cruel mistress, but to me, it's it's Hollywood, it's dreams, it's, it's, it's images, it's lizards, it's cactus, it's a, it's a palm tree half on fire, you know, it's, it's all of it.

Yeah, there's something brutally solitary about Los Angeles. I love New York so much, so many times I go back to New York and I'm like, I've ruined my life by not living here. I'd be a better artist, I'd be more connected to to people, to strangers, like I, I, I really long for strangers and for those like interactions that really feeds me on a deep level. And I, I am sad that in L. A. it's harder to get those interactions.

Um, but I think, uh, I don't know. L. A. is, is it is it, it is in. It's strange and it can make you feel. I remember after living in New York, coming back to L. A. and being like, Well, I've never felt uglier, more exposed, more alone. Driving in the car, looking in the in the mirror, like, like, you're alien, you're like, who is that?

it's so bright.

It's so bright, there's nowhere to hide, and yet it only can hides you. I don't know, but you love you love her. Come on, seeing those hills speckled with homes lit up at night, drive down Hollywood Boulevard. It's the man with a machete outside the you Man's Chinese. And you go,

see, and you come home. we're dreaming, Yeah, we create the dreams, yeah, Amy. This town hm, hm.

creates the fantasies that drive the world.

And what's, um, and what's making you laugh? My last question to you, like, like, what do you do to laugh? And you can't say your friends.

Just go watch people fall down at the supermarket. Um, um, what makes me laugh is non performers performing. Like, I've been to a couple weddings, a couple like those kinds of environments where someone who's not a performer is giving a speech, that is exquisite.

and let's talk through that, because I know what you mean, and I bet you're the same. Like as women, like our mirror neurons, we we don't want anyone to be humiliated. No, of course, Of course, not,

and it's sweet. You see

and it's tender.

people, it's scary up there. I'm a performer, I'm scared up there.

Yes, but when it's like a little bit awkward, but fun, but what do you? what? what makes you laugh? Like, what? what do you? What's your your like, perfect version of that?

I think what's so fascinating about wedding speeches is there's like this template and people are like, like, this is the thing I've talked about with John. So classically, the bridesmaid speech, you're the bride, right? You're this, you're funny, it's time, it's time. It's listing things, and then the vows, too. It's usually, you know, to your friend, and you come, whether we're bama-nah or hamanah, you always hamanah. It's like, so shocking, it's like this rehearsed, and there's a beauty in that.

Like, this is the structure we can all fall into and collapse into this familiar language, and everyone knows exactly what's gonna happen. And but. But it's like, that's funny, like that, that, that's, that's really, and again, the listing traits, it's always listing traits.

I know it's so funny,

You're goofy, you're smart, you're kind, and you're generous. Listing traits. We have to go beyond the list,

yes, but breaking out of that is but I understand, wild. I too, I'm saying that do,

I'm not admonishing the list, no, of course I get it.

not. You're right, that's you could hear that language, you could hear that rhythm. a hint, And

a hint, a hint, a hint. It's like, it's really there. Yeah,

yeah, I totally. I love a wedding. love, If it's a bad wedding, I'm like, ugh, oh my I love it. Like, god. you know, if everyone, if there's like a clumsy speech, or people are stressed, or the wrong person cries, or the ex is there and it's awkward. I'm like, Oh my god, what theater? And if it's beautiful and full of love, I'm like, amazing, I love that too, I love a wedding.

and I and I just, I love parties so much, and I'm very like planner. Like, if I didn't, if I didn't do what I do, I think I'd be like, Party planner I've never, I've never. Yeah, maybe Wait, tell me, professor party planner. okay, but Yeah,

what? Parties make me a little stressed. They're very unstructured.

no, totally. Well, so I I go, Oh my god, the apps like, bring out the apps now, you know, I, I was actually at a wedding recently, nice one. At Broken Glass, bleeding on my mouth, ran to the bathroom. There's blood. I spit, I spit it out in the ceviche, there's glass. oh God, So I go by, I go, I go in, I don't tell anyone, I'm not gonna ruin this wedding.

of course.

I go into the kitchen, through the doors, into the metal doors. I go, Guys, the ceviche trays, you gotta pull them, you gotta pull them, there's glass, you know? And I quietly, Oh, you quietly,

wanna put out those fires.

and all micro, like, I, I definitely have, like, can have a white knuckle grip. Like, I love to have a dinner party or something, and I love to spend the days awake, you know, the the nights before. It's not as simple. It's it's not the effortless host is a lie. I I think it's real. Some people actually can do that, but like, I'm like, shaking. But there's things you can't control. You can control the party, but guess what?

Over controlled party? Hell, hell for everyone. hell, So that's the thing. You have to create the structure, but you have to let it dissolve.

yeah, you. S. You might burn, like something's gonna burn, the like someone's gonna get in a fight, like wine will be spilled, a chimney sweep may show up.

Yeah, he might. Yeah, he might, Hey, he

he might.

might give you TMJ, but you keep going.

And that is something. The second thing we want you to take away from, other than having sex with your sibling, Yeah, don't, don't do that.

don't, guys, don't do it, don't do it. Caperland I love you. wait, I love you so Same much. You are a hero to me. I have Kate no trouble saying that to you. And also, truly, going through a really hard time recently. What did I pop on? Wet hot? Mm, they came together, double feature, cause I'm like, I need something funny. I'm thinking, okay, funny movie, what's a funny movie? Oh, that's funny, nothing's coming up. I And then I go, know we're going, we're going back to WA with with Wet Hot lives in my DNA that is and such.

A. I mean,

you must have been a teen when it came out, Yeah, I don't right? Yeah,

remember when I first saw it, I saw it later, but um, it is the most beautiful and just, yeah, yeah,

thank you, Kate. I love, I love seeing and that's just you.

the tip. I am, I'm not gonna do your CV. We all know, but I love you,

Thank you, Kate. I love I love

you, thank you.

you, Kate. Thank you so much, Kate Berlant. That was so fun. I love talking to you and you're so funny, and, um, it's just a joy to be around you. So, uh, Kate and I talked about a lot of things. One of the things we talked about is how fun it is to watch a awkward wedding speech. But I just wanna say for people that are right now getting ready to give a speech, a wedding speech, just a few tips.

Here are my unsolicited tips, which start with a joke and sincere. Don't do it the other way around. Don't start sincere and then think that this hilarious joke is gonna kill. Start with a really nice, easy joke up front, maybe something about how you're nervous, something self-effacing, and then just get him at the end by being very, very sincere. You can never go wrong. If you're sincere, you can go horribly wrong if you say the wrong joke.

So that would be my unsolicited advice. But congratulations on your wedding and congratulations on being the bridesmaid. And, um, remember, take your speech and cut it in half, cause it's gonna go longer than you think. Um, thank you so much for listening to Good Hang. Uh, thanks for, uh, checking in with us and, um, have a good one. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman and me, Amy Poehler.

The show is produced by The Ringer and Paper Kite. For The Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya McMullen, Aleya Zenieris, Bridget Geerlings, Paige Garbarini, Belle Roman and Drew Van Steenbergen. For Paper Kite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.

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