# Creating More, Not Less, With AI: GeekWire’s Todd Bishop - **Show:** Me, Myself, and AI - **Published:** 25 Nov 2025 - **Source:** https://sloanreview.mit.edu/audio/creating-more-not-less-with-ai-geekwires-todd-bishop - **Transcript:** https://podcasts.opennash.com/shows/me-myself-and-ai/creating-more-not-less-with-ai-geekwires-todd-bishop-828255/ - **Provider:** OpenNash Podcasts (machine-generated) ## In brief Todd Bishop and Sam Ransbotham argue that AI is mostly taking over tasks, not whole jobs, and that it is likely to create more work than it removes. Examples include Box's CEO working more rather than less, and entry-level hires and senior staff training each other. Both say people should treat AI as a power tool: learn it through low-risk trial and error rather than avoid it. The main tension is between enthusiasm and skepticism. Tools improve fast, but they also change without warning, as when Gemini stopped fact-checking Bishop's stories the way it used to. Companies feel pressure to adopt AI but struggle to rely on it. The hosts also point to a consumption problem, with more content than anyone can read. Bishop says he has had to push himself to be more cynical as a journalist. ## Key insights 1. **AI is replacing tasks, not whole jobs** Bishop says he cannot point to a single tech job that AI has replaced one for one. The effect is indirect: executives may feel bold enough to cut staff, assuming the remaining people can do more with AI tools. 2. **Startup success metrics have flipped upside down** GeekWire's startup ranking originally treated headcount growth as the sign of success. Bishop says that now a company growing with fewer people, and so burning less cash, is probably doing better. 3. **AI tools can change behavior without warning** Bishop's usual fact-checking prompt in Gemini suddenly made it treat his story as fiction. Ransbotham found his AI-assisted course content behaved differently when he returned to it, which makes it hard for organizations to build on these tools. 4. **More AI output creates a consumption problem** Ransbotham notes that AI makes it easy to produce far more content than anyone can read. Bishop sees the effect in an inbox that keeps filling up, and his proposed answer is to let AI help manage the flood. 5. **Entry-level workers and veterans can train each other** Bishop describes a podcast guest from Cisco who framed this as co-training. Newcomers learn the tools and the veterans teach judgment, so AI does not have to be a reason to skip entry-level hires. ## Questions this episode answers ### Is AI going to take all the jobs? Neither host thinks so. Bishop says AI is taking over tasks rather than whole jobs, and Ransbotham expects it to create jobs, though he warns the new jobs will not match the old ones. ### Why might cheaper AI-made work lead to more jobs instead of fewer? Ransbotham's argument from basic economics is that when something costs less, people buy more of it, so demand can grow. He cautions that travel agents were once forecast to grow and didn't, because other things changed too. ### Should students or employees be allowed to use AI at all? Ransbotham lets his students use AI for anything, even on exams, because they need to learn the tool. He says this wouldn't work for every class, such as ones teaching basic arithmetic, where a calculator would defeat the purpose. ### Why is it hard for companies to build on tools like ChatGPT or Gemini? Bishop explains that the products can change how they behave without notice, since no product manager scripts every response. His example is Gemini no longer fact-checking his stories properly, and he suggests open-source models give companies more control. ### How does a journalist stay skeptical about exciting new technology? Bishop says he is a tech enthusiast who tends to ask what a company's magic can do, and reader feedback taught him he was too optimistic. He now deliberately pushes himself to be more cynical. ## Facts - **Sam Ransbotham** [0:00:21]: "professor of analytics at Boston College. I've been researching data analytics and AI at MIT Sloan Research since 2014" - **Todd Bishop** [0:01:19]: "my colleague John Cook and I were longtime newspaper reporters, and we saw the blogging revolution happening back in, I don't know, 2007, 2008." - **Todd Bishop** [0:01:19]: "We were writing for a daily paper in Seattle called The Seattle Post-Intelligencer, which no longer exists." - **Todd Bishop** [0:01:49]: "through a variety of different twists and turns, ended up starting GeekWire in 2011, and we're based in Seattle." - **Todd Bishop** [0:02:53]: "We have a feature called the GeekWire 200, which is a ranking of Pacific Northwest startups." - **Todd Bishop** [0:02:53]: "from the very beginning, our core metric was employee growth." - **Todd Bishop** [0:03:24]: "if you're growing and succeeding with fewer people, frankly, you're probably more successful, at least in terms of reducing your cash burn and doing more with your money." - **Todd Bishop** [0:05:48]: "the horizons have just been expanded so much for him, for the company. There's so much more that can be done now with AI," - **Todd Bishop** [0:05:48]: "It was about six months ago that I talked with him." - **Sam Ransbotham** [0:06:57]: "one of the BLS statistics that I remember was that travel agents were forecasted to be a massive growth opportunity" - **Sam Ransbotham** [0:06:31]: "I think about it from a value perspective. If if something costs less, we consume more." - **Todd Bishop** [0:07:38]: "the idea of not letting this be an opportunity to no longer have interns or entry-level employees, but to, in fact, look at this as a chance for almost like co-training." - **Sam Ransbotham** [0:09:48]: "we're wide open, use AI for anything, even on the exams." - **Todd Bishop** [0:12:31]: "I got a chance to talk with Ed Bot, who is a longtime journalist who's covered Microsoft, and we talked about the latest AI innovations in Windows." - **Todd Bishop** [0:14:22]: "it was kind of pretending that it was fiction and giving me feedback" - **Todd Bishop** [0:16:11]: "we end up covering a nonprofit in Seattle called the Allen Institute for AI" - **Todd Bishop** [0:18:50]: "about six or seven years ago, our comment section just went off the rails and it was no longer adding value" - **Todd Bishop** [0:19:18]: "We've talked about bringing Blue Sky comments back in using their open protocol, and that's something we might still consider." - **Sam Ransbotham** [0:20:17]: "I call the banking model of education, where empty students come in and the learned professor dumps a bunch of information on them" - **Sam Ransbotham** [0:22:46]: "Next time, I'll be joined by OpenAI's 1st chief economist, Ronnie Chatterjee." ## Transcript **[0:00:02] Narrator:** AI tools are evolving at a rapid pace, so quickly, even, that they change when users go back to them. On today's episode, we speak with a journalist and fellow podcaster about tech advancements and their implications on organizations. **[0:00:16] Todd Bishop:** I'm Todd Bishop from GeekWire, and you're listening to Me, Myself and AI. **[0:00:21] Sam Ransbotham:** Welcome to Me, Myself and AI, a podcast from MIT Sloan Management Review, exploring the future of artificial intelligence. I'm Sam Ransbotham, professor of analytics at Boston College. I've been researching data analytics and AI at MIT Sloan Research since 2014, with research articles, annual industry reports, case studies, and now twelve seasons of podcast episodes. On each episode, corporate leaders, cutting-edge researchers and AI policymakers join us to break down what separates AI hype from AI success. Hey listeners, thanks everyone for joining us again. **[0:01:03] Sam Ransbotham:** Our guest today is Todd Bishop. He's the co-founder of GeekWire. Todd's got a deep background in journalism, starting back in the day, I think, on student newspapers, but more recently founding GeekWire back in 2011. So Todd, let's start there. Give us a little background about GeekWire. **[0:01:19] Todd Bishop:** Well, my colleague John Cook and I were longtime newspaper reporters, and we saw the blogging revolution happening back in, I don't know, 2007, 2008. And from that moment on, John has kind of been my co-conspirator and somebody who's inspired me to really push the envelope with embracing technology in reporting. We were writing for a daily paper in Seattle called The Seattle Post-Intelligencer, which no longer exists. In part, I theorize, because the name is so dang hard to pronounce. **[0:01:49] Todd Bishop:** Um, As if it's so we, through a variety of different twists and turns, ended up starting GeekWire in 2011, and we're based in Seattle. And we like to say that what happens in Seattle matters everywhere. And the whole notion is that there's a worldwide audience of people and companies and all sorts of things that basically want to know what's happening in the Pacific Northwest. And that is our niche. GeekWire's a small media company, events company. I have just been, you know, really thriving from my perspective over the past two years in this new AI world. **[0:02:25] Todd Bishop:** Based on 2 things. One is the much more interesting landscape that we have to cover and the extremely powerful tools that we suddenly have at our disposal to use in the process of reporting. **[0:02:35] Sam Ransbotham:** well, you said it come very interesting, and I think that's a nice euphemism. It's a little chaotic at times, isn't it? I mean, just for background to our listeners, Todd's got a podcast. What do you think is different about the world from when you started this GeekWire approach and the podcast to now? **[0:02:53] Todd Bishop:** I, I would say there's one thing that really stands out. Obviously, there's many different things that stand out, but in terms of just the illustration of how different the tech world is today. We have a feature called the GeekWire 200, which is a ranking of Pacific Northwest startups. And from the very beginning, our core metric was employee growth. And the question was, are you growing? are you raising money? and are you adding people? And if so, that was our barometer of success. **[0:03:24] Todd Bishop:** And that has just been flipped on its head to the point where it's almost the inverse, where if you're growing and succeeding with fewer people, frankly, you're probably more successful, at least in terms of reducing your cash burn and doing more with your money. And to me, amid all the change, and we could sit here for an hour talking about everything that's changed, that, to me, is the clearest illustration of how different the world is today. **[0:03:49] Sam Ransbotham:** Actually, I hadn't thought we'd get into this part so quickly, but you brought up the specter of jobs. Uh, we've seen so much talk about jobs and how much, oh my gosh, you know, AI is going to take over all the jobs. I'm not seeing it. Are you? **[0:04:04] Todd Bishop:** I'm seeing AI take over tasks, not jobs, and that, to me, is the big difference. And in that way, I think it's emboldening executives at, especially these larger companies, to let people go. To assume that the people who are left will be able to do more with the AI tools than the large numbers of employees would have been able to do without them. And so, in that way, it's an indirect impact on jobs, but it's very hard for me as a reporter to point to a job, especially in the tech industry, where it's one for one. **[0:04:36] Todd Bishop:** AI is now doing this particular job, and therefore that job no longer exists. It's a little more indirect, but what are you seeing? **[0:04:44] Sam Ransbotham:** Well, I mean, I think I pushed the opposite way. I. I was listening to one of your recent episodes with a box CEO, and, you know, that really, I think, aligned with what I was thinking, too, that I'm really firmly embracing this idea that this is gonna be a massive job creator. And I know that's sort of counter to the woe is me, everything is. And, you know, like you pointed to a second ago, the perhaps nefarious motives for announcing job cuts, which may or may not be related to task. **[0:05:13] Sam Ransbotham:** But the ability for us to do more than we've ever done before is gonna create opportunities. **[0:05:20] Todd Bishop:** I've brought this up so many times. You mentioned the box CEO that I think the GeekWire podcast listeners who might be tuning into this are going to be sick of hearing it, but I'll mention it. I went to Aaron Levy, the box CEO, and I assumed that he would be using AI agents to basically do less work, right? He'd be off in Tahoe skiing, you know, water or snow, whatever he might be doing that season. Whatever phase they Exactly, and it was just the opposite, and this was a really eye-opening moment for me. **[0:05:48] Todd Bishop:** It was about six months ago that I talked with him. And the fact that the horizons have just been expanded so much for him, for the company. There's so much more that can be done now with AI, and therefore, there's just more time and energy being put into doing those things. It's just it's a little bit the opposite. And to your point, I think when you think about the job market, there's really the potential for all these new possibilities to create more, not less. **[0:06:18] Todd Bishop:** And, uh, granted, there's gonna be a painful transition here in the meantime. But I think in the end, I tend to buy the argument that this is gonna be additive, much like prior revolutions in tech and industry. **[0:06:31] Sam Ransbotham:** Yeah, I mean, I think about it from a value perspective. If if something costs less, we consume more. And so what what this technologies are doing is allowing us to create some components of technology, not all components, but some components for less, which says prices will drop. And if I remember my P's and Q's right from microecon, you know, that's gonna play out with a greater quantity. But, you know, like you say, I don't want to be cavalier. **[0:06:57] Sam Ransbotham:** It's not gonna be exactly the same jobs, it's not gonna be exactly the same tasks. We don't have a lot of travel agents like we used to have prior to the internet. And one of the BLS statistics that I remember was that travel agents were forecasted to be a massive growth opportunity because of the argument was that increased discretionary income would lead to more ability to travel, more flexible jobs would create demand for more travel agents. **[0:07:24] Sam Ransbotham:** And as we know, that didn't exactly work out that way. The mechanisms are right, but we tend to think so myopically when we're projecting, we project along one dimension, and then, well, everything else changes, too. **[0:07:38] Todd Bishop:** totally. And I I'll turn it back on you a little bit, Sam, because I've been listening to your podcast now. And and one of the ones that I really appreciated was G2 Patel from Cisco. And one of the things you got into with him was this whole notion of the generational differences and the generational viewpoints. And the idea of not letting this be an opportunity to no longer have interns or entry-level employees, but to, in fact, look at this as a chance for almost like co-training. **[0:08:07] Todd Bishop:** Where the people who are coming into the workforce and taking these jobs, these entry-level jobs, are just as much training the people who are further along in their careers. Talk about a euphemism like you and me as the people who are further along are training the newcomers. And that really was one of those aha moments. It was actually on a level of what I learned in terms of Aaron Levy telling me, you know, no, this is more work, not less. **[0:08:32] Todd Bishop:** It's like, no, we actually need to create more interactions with these people taking these new jobs and not just rely on the AI to do all these things. I've had a couple of different interactions over the last three months with entry-level reporters who are just coming out of college, and the dynamic is really interesting because they're just coming out of school. And maybe you can address this in terms of some of your students, Sam. And in each case, it was an intern and then somebody else I was mentoring who was going for his 1st reporting job. **[0:09:02] Todd Bishop:** I said, So how much are you using AI? how much are you using AI? And their 1st reaction was to get defensive and think that I was gonna accuse them of using AI. And I was actually just thinking about it, and obviously the complete opposite. Like, are you learning the tools? Are you figuring out how you're gonna fit into this new environment that the world is turning into, and what kinds of ways you're gonna use them responsibly as journalists? **[0:09:29] Todd Bishop:** And so it's interesting that I think, in some ways, from my vicarious observation there, my view into the world of academia from somebody who's just seeing these people come out of it. I wonder if the messages are right, and I'd be really curious for your take on that from your own firsthand experience. **[0:09:48] Sam Ransbotham:** Journalism and an education are two. I guess everyone thinks that their own industry is particularly subject to any new technological revolution, but certainly journalism and education feel at the forefront of some of this. I liked the way you asked that question before with one of your guests, you know, is it cheating to use AI? But one of the things that that I do in in our class is we're wide open, use AI for anything, even on the exams. **[0:10:13] Sam Ransbotham:** The idea there is that, all right, this is the new tool, and we have a whole set of other tools we've expected to learn how to use. You need to learn how to use this one too. Now, I'm not also so naive as to think that there are not classes that that doesn't work for, so it's very idiosyncratic. I think the classic example is if we're learning how to add and subtract, we don't want people using a calculator, and that's now become a trope. **[0:10:37] Sam Ransbotham:** But you know, if you're not doing the adding and subtracting classes, then calculator is a pretty useful tool. And particularly in terms of journalism, everybody's going to be using those tools. I don't think we're saying don't use these tools, though. That's not the, you **[0:10:50] Todd Bishop:** oh, agreed. **[0:10:50] Sam Ransbotham:** know, I mean, maybe maybe don't use a a chainsaw on a garden party. That may be a pretty good rule of thumb, but people are going to be using these tools in organizations, and they're going to use them before we have infrastructure in place. And that's just kind of the way things work. We've got no other human civilizations to point to and look at the back of the book and say, Well, here's how that last human civilization did with artificial intelligence. **[0:11:14] Sam Ransbotham:** This is what we should do. We're all just having to figure it out. **[0:11:17] Todd Bishop:** No, totally agreed. But I do like the idea of thinking about AI as a power tool. You know, you don't just hand it to somebody who's never really used it or thought about the implications. Maybe in a personal situation where, you know, you're just trying it out and testing it. But if you're truly going to be using this in a company, and, you know, I think it's really imperative on companies to train, but even more so on individuals to figure out how to use it through some trial and error in low-risk situations. **[0:11:46] Todd Bishop:** And to me, that's really important. **[0:11:47] Sam Ransbotham:** Yeah, for the record, I did not pay Todd to say that. I love that analogy, though, because, I mean, I can go to my big box do-it-yourself store and I can buy any of these tools. But what I do with them is very different than what someone who actually knows what they're doing with that tool would do. And I think about that with vibe coding, which I'm still so uncertain about. I love the idea that we've lowered the barrier, that people can use these tools, they can create things on their own. **[0:12:13] Sam Ransbotham:** At the same time, to what degree, like, I'm not really ready for air traffic control to be working off somebody's vibe code. You know, you've been doing this podcast for a while. What do you think people are interested in hearing about? What makes a story interesting for people? What captures the zeitgeist? **[0:12:31] Todd Bishop:** Things are moving so fast that newsy episodes tend to do very well for us. Just recently, I got a chance to talk with Ed Bot, who is a longtime journalist who's covered Microsoft, and we talked about the latest AI innovations in Windows. And when you combine AI with something that's as widely used as Windows and the whole notion there in particular, that people will be able to use agents on their own files, on their own desktop. **[0:13:00] Todd Bishop:** So that kind of mix of timeliness and utility. Another one that really did well for us recently was a discussion about vibe coding with Chris Perillo, who's a longtime geek and conference organizer. **[0:13:15] Sam Ransbotham:** Yeah, I mean, so maybe some of this is you talk about news stories doing well. I mean, one of the things that I think our challenge, though, is to pull away from some of that. And I probably say that myopically, cause we are trying for more enduring types of themes on our show than you, you know, you're driven a little bit more by the news cycle. But, you know, which? If we're chasing all these things, I feel like it's really easy to get super invested in tool A and then find out the tool A changes on you. **[0:13:39] Sam Ransbotham:** I think you had an analogy, I was listening to one of your episodes, that something about one of the tools changed out from under you. You used to have it fact check for you, and then it quit fact-checking. Was that? Am I remembering that right? **[0:13:51] Todd Bishop:** that's right, it was Gemini. It used to be that it knew implicitly what I was doing when I uploaded a story and related materials to fact check. And it's really interesting. It kind of goes along with the vibe coding theme, where things are shifting and changing. And what happened was I uploaded the story and the underlying materials to Gemini and gave it my typical prompt. It was something like, Hey, check this story, and it used to just know what I meant, and suddenly it was doing something really weird. **[0:14:22] Todd Bishop:** I can't even remember exactly what it was doing, but it was kind of pretending that it was fiction and giving me feedback on my. And that has been a challenge in some respects, because these are not human created products in the end that we're using. It's not something where a product manager is saying, and when a user does this, the UI will say this. And I think it's a challenge not only for the users like us, but for the companies that are making them. **[0:14:50] Todd Bishop:** And I think in terms of big picture trends, and I agree with you, we do try to find some deeper insights in the day's news or the week's news. And that is one of them that I think it's a completely different kind of product that we're dealing with here. **[0:15:05] Sam Ransbotham:** I had my own personal experience where I created some course content with the assistance of AI and, of course, only got halfway done before the semester started. And so then I went back once to catch up and it completely had changed how it was working. And, you know, if you and I are dealing with this at the individual level, what's it like for enterprises to build systems that are, in theory, working with these tools? If they don't do them, if they don't use them, they're screwed. **[0:15:33] Sam Ransbotham:** If they do use them, they're screwed. Is there a path in here that's not you're screwed at the end of it? **[0:15:39] Todd Bishop:** Well, this gets into your hugging face conversation. I know we're we're coming off like super fans of each other's episodes, but we have been listening to each other's podcasts here, which is good podcast host practice. I think before you're gonna have a conversation with somebody, I think one answer is open source. And the fact that a lot of these models are available for companies with sophisticated developers to bring in and have a modicum of transparency. And maybe not control over the outcome, but at least the ability to put some parameters around it and to control the environment. **[0:16:11] Todd Bishop:** And we end up covering a nonprofit in Seattle called the Allen Institute for AI, and I go in, it's kind of cool. This used to happen more in tech coverage, where you would go in for a product briefing and you would walk out like an hour later. With not only information about the thing they were going to be releasing, but also just a much deeper understanding. And anytime I go to AI2, the Allen Institute for AI, I walk away with this, just like, Oh, now I understand what post-training AI is like. **[0:16:43] Todd Bishop:** It's that kind of institution. But more to the point, I do think when you're talking about control and the ability for companies to have some predictability in the way they roll out these AI models and what the AI models do, I think open source is one of the answers. **[0:16:59] Sam Ransbotham:** one of the things that I I'm thinking about now is that we focus on these tools in their ability to generate things, maybe myopically ignoring the demands that they're putting on consumption. Meaning that we are now able to have far more content than our ability to consume these. And that's true in organization, that there's a whole bunch of organizational stuff that has to happen, too. That just because a tool is better doesn't mean we should put it in place because it may not be enough better, or it may be a little fragile. **[0:17:34] Sam Ransbotham:** These are all consumption-oriented problems, less than production. Can we do anything about the consumption problem? **[0:17:41] Todd Bishop:** Yeah, that's a great question, and I tend to think of this in the category of let your bot talk to my bot, right? Because, you know, as a reporter, and of course, everybody has this problem, I feel like I'm getting more and more email in particular coming in, just overwhelming me. And it's I think it's getting worse in the same way that spam calls are getting worse. In part because people are using AI to to optimize the content, or to at least optimize is probably the wrong word to accelerate and expand the content to your point. **[0:18:15] Todd Bishop:** And my solution to that, in part, is AI tools, maybe AI can make our communication better. **[0:18:22] Sam Ransbotham:** man, there's some hope there. You mentioned all the emails you're getting. We get a ton of emails every day. It's really quite phenomenal how much, and I'm sure you even get more. But in there, there's some great emails. How do you engage with listeners from a podcast standpoint? One of the things that I personally find frustrating is that you and I talk to each other and it's fun, but I'd like to talk with everyone else. Yet all these emails come in. **[0:18:46] Sam Ransbotham:** How can we better engage with listeners as podcasters? **[0:18:50] Todd Bishop:** you know, this might be sort of a call to action for me, Sam, cause I've thought about this a lot. And if anything, I think of it even beyond listeners, but also readers as well, because we we tend to be text on the page first, and then the podcast is sort of after that. And I would say, about six or seven years ago, our comment section just went off the rails and it was no longer adding value other than some kind of malicious **[0:19:18] Sam Ransbotham:** venting ground. **[0:19:18] Todd Bishop:** gratification that somebody was getting from insulting somebody else who had posted something else. That's you, you know, the deal. We've talked about bringing Blue Sky comments back in using their open protocol, and that's something we might still consider. But I miss that one-on-one direct kind of interaction. In terms of podcast listeners, I've got, I'd say about ten to 15 people who are, you know, just the the power listeners. And if it's a good episode, I know that I'm gonna hear from at least a handful of them. **[0:19:50] Todd Bishop:** And I'm sure you've got the same thing where it's like, I thought about this and I what about But you got this? And even **[0:19:55] Sam Ransbotham:** that wrong. **[0:19:56] Todd Bishop:** yes, exactly, you got that. Why didn't you ask this? And, uh, I love yeah, that's my it, I, you know, **[0:20:00] Sam Ransbotham:** favorite one. Is, and, you know, usually they're right. Is why should I ask that? Shoot, what was I thinking? **[0:20:06] Todd Bishop:** But we haven't figured out a good way to systematize that and to incorporate it back into the show. And part of this is just time and energy and resources to do that. **[0:20:17] Sam Ransbotham:** You know, I think about it coming back to your journalism, um, in education, we used to have a model in education, which, you know, they, I call the banking model of education, where empty students come in and the learned professor dumps a bunch of information on them and they walk away filled with knowledge. And, you know, I, I don't know if that ever worked, but it certainly doesn't work anymore. Education seems to work when it's bidirectional, when it's co-learning, when it's. **[0:20:43] Sam Ransbotham:** There's a benefit to being in the same room engaging with people, and much of the journalism world doesn't support that well because of exactly the problem you mentioned with your comment section. And, you know, the podcast world, in a similar way, is very broadcast oriented. I don't have a great solution for that anyway. You've got a lot of amazing stories that people bring on the show. At the same time, I also sense some skepticism in how you're talking about these things. **[0:21:12] Sam Ransbotham:** How are you balancing that? We're excited about this technology, you're excited about what it could do. At the same time, there's a disconnect between what people are saying that their technologies are capable of and what they actually are capable of. How do we reconcile those, or is it necessary to **[0:21:28] Todd Bishop:** Yeah, I tend to think of this on the individual level and the organizational level and the societal level. And where I get into trouble sometimes is just how much of a tech enthusiast I am. And this has actually been a fundamental problem for me as a reporter over the years. Because, you know, I go in, I'm like, what can your magic do, you know? And implicit in that question is what's the positive, what's the good that your magic can do? **[0:22:00] Todd Bishop:** From my perspective, and I've had to learn, and you mentioned reader comments, I mean, reader and listener comments, you know? Part of that has been harsh feedback on me being too optimistic about one company or another's potential to to do something with their technology. And and so I've learned that over the years, and it's become a bit of a reflex for me as a journalist. And obviously, it should be there all along, and it is to a certain extent. **[0:22:21] Todd Bishop:** But a lot of the best journalists are cynical, and I've had to sort of push myself to be even more cynical in the tech world and get past the flashy new thing that I can't wait to try. **[0:22:32] Sam Ransbotham:** Todd? Thanks for taking the time to talk today. It's been fascinating. For listeners who thought this was interesting as I did, head over to GeekWire and listen to another conversation that Todd and I have. Todd, thanks for joining us. **[0:22:43] Todd Bishop:** My pleasure, Sam. **[0:22:46] Sam Ransbotham:** Thanks for joining us. Todd and I had a lot of fun with that conversation, and I hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed recording it. Head over to the GeekWire feed for the companion episode. Next time, I'll be joined by OpenAI's 1st chief economist, Ronnie Chatterjee. See you then. **[0:23:04] Narrator:** Thanks for listening to Me, Myself and AI. Our show is able to continue in large part due to listener support. Your streams and downloads make a big difference. If you have a moment, please consider leaving us an Apple Podcast review or a rating on Spotify and share our show with others you think might find it interesting and helpful.