# Michael Douglas

- **Show:** SmartLess
- **Published:** 5 Oct 2026
- **Source:** https://www.smartless.com/
- **Transcript:** https://podcasts.opennash.com/shows/smartless/michael-douglas-0429c8/
- **Provider:** OpenNash Podcasts (machine-generated)

## In brief

Michael Douglas argues that his career was built on a single principle: serve the material, not the part. Learned at a summer playwrights' conference, it guided him from producing One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest to choosing roles in films like Fatal Attraction and Wall Street. He says he cared about making a good movie, not about starring in it.

The episode moves from a hard childhood in a famous family to hard-won success. Douglas had to push past stage fright, a rejection by his own college, and a painful break with his father over casting. He admits drugs, family trouble and cancer cost him dearly. Yet he ends proud of having stepped out of Kirk Douglas's shadow.

## Key insights

1. **Douglas judged projects by material, not starring roles** He says a summer at the National Playwrights Conference taught him that actors serve the play. He applied that when producing Cuckoo's Nest, Romancing the Stone and The China Syndrome, even when he wasn't cast.
2. **Winning a lawsuit gave Streets of San Francisco its start** Producer Quinn Martin's lawsuit against ABC produced a two-hour pilot and 26 committed episodes. That steady work gave Douglas five seasons of training and the platform to push Cuckoo's Nest forward.
3. **Producing Cuckoo's Nest meant taking the role from his father** Kirk Douglas had developed the project and expected to play McMurphy. Michael had to tell him it wasn't happening, then gave him half of his producing deal.
4. **Television kept him out of leading-man roles until 1987** Even after winning an Oscar as a producer, Douglas was seen as a TV actor, and film and television were separate worlds. Fatal Attraction and Wall Street in the same year changed that.
5. **Mortality pushed him to try new kinds of work** After stage 4 cancer, he asked what he hadn't done. That led to a Liberace film, a green-screen Marvel movie, a sitcom with Chuck Lorre, and a period series about Ben Franklin.

## Questions this episode answers

### Why did Michael Douglas end up studying theater at all?

He picked theater almost by accident. When a college official told him to declare a major, it was the only subject he felt he knew anything about, from watching his father.

### How did Michael Douglas get One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest made?

He overheard his father planning to sell the project and asked to try to set it up himself. He worked on it while shooting The Streets of San Francisco and partnered with Saul Zaentz, and the film got made after about four seasons of the show.

### Did Michael Douglas's father play the lead in Cuckoo's Nest?

No. Kirk Douglas had developed the project and was meant to play McMurphy, but Michael had to tell him he wouldn't be cast. Michael says it was the hardest thing he ever had to do, and he gave his father half of his producing deal.

### What does Michael Douglas say about people calling him a nepo baby?

He says it annoys him, because many parents help their children get into the family business, and he doesn't see why entertainment is singled out. He says what helped him was recognizing good material and the stamina he inherited from his father.

### Why did Michael Douglas stop working after the Ben Franklin series?

He says the eight-episode series took a full year and left him deeply tired. He says he stopped working, not retired, and now loves not working.

## Facts

- **Michael Douglas** [0:14:25]: "my folks got divorced, um, at a very young age, when I was like, about five"
- **Michael Douglas** [0:19:19]: "Now, this was 1963. I had never seen back east a two-piece bathing suit in my life, not yet on a college brochure."
- **Michael Douglas** [0:20:30]: "that's when I went to the Mobil gas station, my hometown of Westport, Connecticut, and was the Mobil man of the month."
- **Michael Douglas** [0:26:14]: "That was when I declared theater as my major and began my pursuit"
- **Michael Douglas** [0:27:14]: "I could not walk onto a stage without a waste basket right off stage, which I would puke into"
- **Michael Douglas** [0:27:43]: "my stepfather, William Darrett, who I grew up with, was on the board of a new theater called the National Playwrights Conference in Waterford, Connecticut."
- **Michael Douglas** [0:29:34]: "CBS back then had a film division. I signed a contract, I went out to California and proceeded to make five turkeys"
- **Michael Douglas** [0:31:28]: "Quinn had this lawsuit with this brand new network called ABC, and he won the lawsuit. And the result of winning the lawsuit was a two-hour introduction movie to the series"
- **Michael Douglas** [0:31:52]: "So that was five years. I did 104 hours, uh, that I spent with Carl Malden."
- **Michael Douglas** [0:32:29]: "My father had developed and gone back himself to Broadway to do the show. It hadn't worked out."
- **Jason Bateman** [0:35:00]: "It did take a while to get it going, and then it go, then it does eventually go on to, uh, become the film that it is. Wins all five major Academy Awards."
- **Michael Douglas** [0:37:01]: "he flew all the way out to California. And he sat down with us at my my place up in Benedict Canyon and opened the first page, and he told us exactly what he wanted to do."
- **Michael Douglas** [0:37:56]: "We tried, uh, we tried to get Gene Hackman, Gene Hackman passed."
- **Michael Douglas** [0:40:26]: "it was the year, uh, the year of, uh, of Fatal Attraction, followed by Wall Street"
- **Michael Douglas** [0:45:32]: "the studio wanted Debra Winger, uh, that's another story, and, uh, and then, and then, and it worked out, and then finally the studio, you know, had met Kathleen Turner"
- **Michael Douglas** [0:46:09]: "originally, I wasn't gonna play the part Richard Dreyfuss was gonna play the f- the third role"
- **Michael Douglas** [0:52:19]: "Colleen Dewhurst, Geraldine Page, they all turned it down. They, they didn't, they didn't wanna play play the, uh, play the part."
- **Michael Douglas** [0:54:20]: "my childhood, I think, is pretty interesting in terms of my mother being Bermudian and my father a Russian Jew"
- **Michael Douglas** [0:55:36]: "I was really fortunate enough to have this Liberace project, uh, with Steven Soderbergh and Matt, uh, Damon"
- **Michael Douglas** [0:56:12]: "I said, Well, you know, I've never done a green screen. I haven't done a green screen picture, so I wanna do that."
- **Michael Douglas** [0:57:10]: "So this situation with, uh, with Chuck Lorre and Alan Arkin The Kominsky method"
- **Michael Douglas** [0:57:24]: "the Ben Franklin series, Uh, came up 8 episodes took all year that, and after that, I realized I was tired"
- **Michael Douglas** [0:59:53]: "Between the film in the film Industry, 160 movies. Uh, my dad, uh, was a very prolific, he wrote about 10 books"
- **Michael Douglas** [1:00:32]: "Had issues with my son, he was in federal prison for 7 1/2 years,"

## Transcript

**[0:00:01] Sean Hayes:** This episode of Smartless is sponsored by Google Book. You know, I'm lucky to have a lot of friends, and having them over is great. But with hosting comes all the tedious stuff, you know, the planning, keeping track of who's coming, managing schedules, making sure everything actually comes together. That's where Google Book comes in. It's a whole new kind of laptop. It comes with Google AI Pro, so you can create custom tasks with Gemini, for example, you can tell it to track RSVPs and manage your calendar, and it does that for you, even when the laptop's closed.

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**[0:02:10] Sean Hayes:** The place you call home is important to you, so it's important to Allstate. Because home is where you make all your memories. Things like inviting your friends over for game night and discovering that one of them takes charades way, way too seriously. It's these memories that make a house feel like home. If it's important to you, it's important to Allstate. Switch to Allstate, and you could save hundreds on home insurance today. Not available in every state.

**[0:02:38] Sean Hayes:** Potential savings vary. Subject to terms and qualifications. Allstate. North American Insurance Company and affiliates. Northbrook, Illinois. Okay, guys, I'm just, uh, just walked to my mailbox, I'm going through my mail. That's what I got here. I got a jury notice. Uh, probably toss that. I have a, uh, sweepstakes. Um, I should probably enter that. I have a a utility bill that's gonna be turned off. All my lights gonna be turned off. Okay, I should probably I'll probably toss that.

**[0:03:08] Sean Hayes:** And um, oh, what's this? Let me open this really quick. It's an all new Smartless right now. Smart, wise, smart, wise, Smart, wise, Guys, guess what's coming up in a couple weeks?

**[0:03:36] Will Arnett:** we gotta mention we gotta oh my god, mention the the uh, Yeah, the Hollywood Bowl, snar, the Hollywood

**[0:03:39] Sean Hayes:** we're gonna be at the Bowl. Hollywood Bowl, October seventeenth.

**[0:03:43] Will Arnett:** and not just there, like, not hanging out, actually doing

**[0:03:45] Sean Hayes:** That's right. a show at the

**[0:03:45] Jason Bateman:** You're gonna be on the stage. Hollywood. Yeah Yeah,

**[0:03:47] Will Arnett:** we're not.

**[0:03:47] Sean Hayes:** And if you don't have tickets yet, you need to go to SmartLess dot com slash live. Is that right?

**[0:03:51] Jason Bateman:** wait, what's it? what is it?

**[0:03:52] Sean Hayes:** SmartLess dot com slash live. Oh my gosh, Okay,

**[0:03:56] Jason Bateman:** that's pretty easy. And and for that, they're gonna, they're gonna get a double guest, is that right? Two guests,

**[0:04:02] Will Arnett:** yep, and we got some fun, we got some fun surprises.

**[0:04:06] Jason Bateman:** really?

**[0:04:06] Will Arnett:** Yeah, we got some fun surprises.

**[0:04:08] Jason Bateman:** All for the price of one ticket Yeah, all for the price of one and a nice, ticket. beautiful October, October seventeenth, correct. right? A fall night out there under the stars.

**[0:04:16] Will Arnett:** It's gonna be gorgeous. And and you, yeah, you g- you buy a ticket, and you can't, you can't put a price tag on a smile,

**[0:04:21] Jason Bateman:** Oh, what a great sell.

**[0:04:23] Will Arnett:** you know?

**[0:04:24] Jason Bateman:** Oh, will, you're the best

**[0:04:26] Sean Hayes:** That's wonderful.

**[0:04:26] Jason Bateman:** anyway. It's gonna be a great night, hopefully as great as this next guest coming up, guys. Let's get to the episode, guys. I was racing out of the house to come be here on time, and, um,

**[0:04:41] Sean Hayes:** Out of the house.

**[0:04:42] Will Arnett:** yeah. He had to go out of the house across the compound.

**[0:04:45] Jason Bateman:** into a separate structure. sorry, yeah, yeah,

**[0:04:49] Will Arnett:** golf carts, a half hour golf cart drive. Tell the listeners,

**[0:04:52] Jason Bateman:** Wait, guys, everybody, just, oh, thought, well, you, you can keep chewing well, just everyone else. Just, uh, just listen to us. God, I know. It's it's an audio

**[0:05:04] Sean Hayes:** time, isn't it? show, Oh yeah,

**[0:05:08] Jason Bateman:** anyway, um, and there, in front of the window by the front door, lying on the ground, is a p- small bird that had that had hit the window, I guess, earlier, and was n- not yet dead, but deeply wounded, hurt. And I and I'm racing to you guys. I didn't have chance to stop amen. and help. I had to call back into the house, and Amanda, I think I hope, is is tending to the young bird.

**[0:05:36] Jason Bateman:** But guys, I'm not, I'm not good about seeing This is the second injured injured animals.

**[0:05:40] Will Arnett:** time, this is the second, what's today? Thurs? This is the second time in five days that there's been a dead bird that a bir- bird that was injured. Remember, on Sunday, Maeve came across an injured bird, remember?

**[0:05:49] Jason Bateman:** oh yeah, yeah, yeah, what's going on?

**[0:05:51] Sean Hayes:** What if that bird tonight was sitting at the dinner table, just all wrapped in bandages? And it's like, Hey, I'm just gonna be spending some time in Well, your house and and from now on.

**[0:05:58] Jason Bateman:** now it can speak. Boy, that would be fantastic. sorry, Sean, W- Sean, I mean,

**[0:06:02] Will Arnett:** what is this?

**[0:06:02] Jason Bateman:** yeah, I'll never forget, right? M. Michigan, Michigan frog. isn't that the name of the frog yeah, Michigan in the box? J. Frog. Hello, Michigan J. Frog, Miami, hello, Mahalo, right? What was

**[0:06:10] Sean Hayes:** hello, Mahalo.

**[0:06:10] Jason Bateman:** the lesson of that particular cartoon episode?

**[0:06:13] Sean Hayes:** Um, I don't know, but every time, yeah, he said, it was somebody who he was like, Oh my god, you gotta hear my. It's like saying, Yeah, I have a friend who's really funny, watch, and then they don't say anything funny. I have a frog that can sing, watch, and the frog doesn't sing around anybody else. And then he rents out Carnegie Hall, and the frog just goes rivet. And we're like, what, remember that?

**[0:06:31] Jason Bateman:** and then and then he got his own network, the WB, I think that's the WB. Yeah,

**[0:06:34] Will Arnett:** And then he got a show, and then he got the W, the W W, B, real Yeah, I remember

**[0:06:39] Sean Hayes:** that show.

**[0:06:40] Jason Bateman:** so, uh, how's everybody this morning?

**[0:06:43] Sean Hayes:** Good. Scotty's birthday is coming up. I'm gonna take him to the Lucas Museum.

**[0:06:46] Jason Bateman:** Boy, speaking of Scotty, that's Scotty. You played us that music that he wrote for for, uh, for the for the college there. I mean, it's just like, Uh, that was stunning, stunning, stunning stuff. Uh,

**[0:06:57] Sean Hayes:** thanks, thanks, thanks.

**[0:06:58] Jason Bateman:** like, it's like, it's like John

**[0:06:59] Will Arnett:** I said, I thought it was Williams. John, I thought it was when I walked in, you guys were playing it, and I thought it was John Williams.

**[0:07:03] Jason Bateman:** He recorded it with the John Williams Orchestra, basically. Yeah. Like Yeah,

**[0:07:06] Sean Hayes:** a lot of people who play it on a lot of ja- for John It's a C. It's Williams. And

**[0:07:08] Will Arnett:** a compliment. I mean, it's he's a talented really good.

**[0:07:10] Sean Hayes:** yeah, yeah, it's great. man. It'll come out, thanks for saying that. He it'll come out like in a month or so, like he'll post it and all that stuff. But And so you um,

**[0:07:16] Will Arnett:** guy, you're taking him to the Lucas Lucas Museum, Museum, yeah, dude, and then are isn't that thing you gonna take

**[0:07:19] Sean Hayes:** just open?

**[0:07:20] Will Arnett:** him?

**[0:07:20] Speaker 6:** I just read an article about that this morning. Yeah,

**[0:07:22] Sean Hayes:** Yeah, more banana. so so

**[0:07:24] Will Arnett:** yeah, yeah, you just gave me shit. And then you you fill your mouth and then start talking.

**[0:07:29] Sean Hayes:** Yeah, no, do it, do it, do the do the

**[0:07:31] Will Arnett:** Keep going.

**[0:07:31] Sean Hayes:** gross banana sound, do it.

**[0:07:33] Speaker 6:** no, I can't. Respectable guy.

**[0:07:35] Will Arnett:** No, you know, you're doing it. No, you're doing it. Don't worry.

**[0:07:39] Jason Bateman:** But so this episode is we're in October,

**[0:07:42] Will Arnett:** This episode is brought to you by October.

**[0:07:45] Jason Bateman:** and uh, and and the Lucas Museum opened, uh, On a couple of his birthday, weeks ago.

**[0:07:50] Sean Hayes:** it opened on his birthday. Yeah, and I'm On Scottie's birthday,

**[0:07:53] Jason Bateman:** very excited to go see that. Yeah,

**[0:07:55] Will Arnett:** so you're you're going, you're going to the opening on his birthday.

**[0:07:57] Sean Hayes:** we can't. We're gonna be in London, but we're gonna come back after that. But what are

**[0:08:01] Will Arnett:** you gonna do with your pocket protector?

**[0:08:05] Jason Bateman:** yeah. What kind of outfit will you guys be wearing when you go to the Lucas Oh, full Museum? like cape and like, Tatooine, um, some sort of a loose flowing

**[0:08:15] Will Arnett:** He's got oh, he's got the robe. Tatooine hat on.

**[0:08:17] Sean Hayes:** yeah, I do. Oh my goodness, Yeah. Um, I'm we're we're. I'm so super, super excited. And yeah, the other You know, I hear thing, I

**[0:08:24] Jason Bateman:** there's not a lot of Star Wars stuff in there.

**[0:08:26] Sean Hayes:** no, uh-uh, it'll be. You'll be hard pressed to find something in there.

**[0:08:30] Jason Bateman:** No, no, truly.

**[0:08:30] Will Arnett:** I think JB was being serious, I I'm being though. No, I just serious,

**[0:08:33] Sean Hayes:** no, I just saw, I just saw a video of it. Um, somebody took a video who's already in it, and there's tons of star, of course, there's tons of Star Wars stuff in all right. Uh, just there. the article Did Jason I read, you you just, you know, I just caused a don't.

**[0:08:43] Will Arnett:** panic in the nerd community? Yeah, I was like, What? I was like, why, Well, or why, why would may maybe

**[0:08:48] Sean Hayes:** you go? what they said I'm calling was

**[0:08:49] Will Arnett:** my congressman?

**[0:08:50] Jason Bateman:** not as not as much as you would think. Um, it is much more about the

**[0:08:54] Sean Hayes:** No, I, you're making all this I sw- up.

**[0:08:55] Jason Bateman:** uh, I was reading in the New York Times this morning. Oh, really, okay, Oh,

**[0:08:59] Will Arnett:** Another bite, for sure. Sorry, Jason, go ahead. another bite of banana, The karma is so instant, it's fucking bananas.

**[0:09:08] Speaker 6:** And then I and then I'm gonna move

**[0:09:09] Sean Hayes:** get it.

**[0:09:09] Speaker 6:** on to this.

**[0:09:10] Jason Bateman:** my Aloha bar.

**[0:09:11] Will Arnett:** Aloha bar. Those bars are great, they're just filled with stuff you don't know. Yeah, no, there's plenty Why not just of eat whole food?

**[0:09:17] Jason Bateman:** they describe it all in the back. This these Aloha bars, everybody oh God, please, is the best.

**[0:09:21] Will Arnett:** God, you love the classics?

**[0:09:22] Sean Hayes:** those are your snack. You know what I had for a snack before bed last night? And it's

**[0:09:24] Jason Bateman:** Let me guess, let me guess, very Can we guess? Can let me guess,

**[0:09:25] Will Arnett:** we guess? let me guess, Can we guess?

**[0:09:26] Jason Bateman:** let me guess.

**[0:09:27] Will Arnett:** Uh, dumplings?

**[0:09:28] Jason Bateman:** Uh, gallon of caramel corn. nope,

**[0:09:30] Will Arnett:** Um, uh, a molasses.

**[0:09:33] Sean Hayes:** no. I can't. Hot wings A can of sweet peas with butter. what? I just I'm sorry, what ate an ent- entire can of peas,

**[0:09:41] Jason Bateman:** wait, wait, what are sweet peas?

**[0:09:43] Sean Hayes:** sweet peas, like a can canned

**[0:09:44] Jason Bateman:** That's something I'd call somebody. peas,

**[0:09:46] Will Arnett:** canned peas? Are you? sweet. are you? are you? Were you? Did you go into your doomsday bunker and just grab an extra can? What happened? Did you get some tang? Did you make a big jug of tang while you were down there?

**[0:09:57] Sean Hayes:** Yeah, by the way, that sounds good to wash it down, trying Wait, to wash it

**[0:10:01] Jason Bateman:** I don't understand. down. Where did you get a can of peas from?

**[0:10:03] Sean Hayes:** I I stock my whole pantry with C peas, cause I like it f- as a snack, I just eat a whole can.

**[0:10:08] Jason Bateman:** True, true, truly. Uh, like, loose peas, uh

**[0:10:12] Sean Hayes:** loose peas.

**[0:10:13] Will Arnett:** Into a into a pot now, do you? How? How are you doing it

**[0:10:16] Sean Hayes:** Yeah, I put it on the stove in a in a pot. Takes like 2 with minutes. Take it from warm

**[0:10:20] Will Arnett:** water?

**[0:10:20] Sean Hayes:** with water, and then you strain it and you put butter on it, and then you eat it. Ate the whole thing.

**[0:10:24] Jason Bateman:** so so you just love the taste of by by the way, peas?

**[0:10:26] Will Arnett:** by the way, Sean, again, a again, we i. It's not like we don't believe that you ate the whole thing. That's not the issue. The issue is or the butter, the the or the butter, the thing, the issue is the thing itself. ah, peas

**[0:10:38] Jason Bateman:** is something that's just, uh, it's just always kind of there, like parsley on a on a plate, and you don't pay Brought to it.

**[0:10:43] Will Arnett:** you by your friends at Del Monte. You don't really pay it much mind,

**[0:10:46] Sean Hayes:** exactly. That was them.

**[0:10:48] Jason Bateman:** but you made a whole meal out of it.

**[0:10:49] Sean Hayes:** Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, I. I cause they're sweet. I don't know. It's like a s. It's like a sweet snack. It's crazy. I love don't you like pea soup? I do, yeah, but this is a different

**[0:11:01] Jason Bateman:** that's the soup. we're we're Yeah, These are solids. Yeah, yeah, all right. Well, anyway, um, if our guest is still up, um, we're gonna, we're gonna fire Power up a conversation through. with him. Um,

**[0:11:15] Will Arnett:** JB, you sure you don't want you? sh- you don't you don't wanna just get rid of that? Aloha let me just I'll bar real quick?

**[0:11:18] Jason Bateman:** unwrap the Aloha bar. No, I won't. All just a right now, fellas, I'm not sure how to properly introduce this guest. This morning. To go through his credits

**[0:11:27] Will Arnett:** Now I'm nervous.

**[0:11:28] Jason Bateman:** would take an hour, to Oh, God, mention his nominations and awards would take another. He's been a steady and consistent presence in our business, uh, that that is anything but steady and consistent. Uh, for over sixty years, he has managed to act and produce some of the best, most entertaining, most respected, best remembered projects the business has turned out. But he's also worked at a gas station where he won, he won Mobil Man of the year.

**[0:11:52] Jason Bateman:** No, of the month,

**[0:11:52] Sean Hayes:** I hear, Do you hear a bird? I think the bird's okay.

**[0:11:55] Jason Bateman:** the bird's alive. Um, he also did a full year of college at UCSB. Okay, a full single year. Um, he was almost kidnapped at age eight, and he's beaten cancer. He's got a new book coming out, covers it all in fine detail, but he's stopping by here today to give us a few bits and pieces. It's a great honor to have him here. Please welcome the man behind the China Syndrome, Wall Street, Fatal Attraction, Basic Instinct, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Romancing the Stone, Falling Down, The War of the Roses.

**[0:12:22] Will Arnett:** Michael Douglas What? Oh my Many great gosh,

**[0:12:24] Jason Bateman:** films, folks, Michael Douglas. Way, What? way, way my gosh,

**[0:12:29] Will Arnett:** What? gosh. Michael Douglas. oh my

**[0:12:31] Michael Douglas:** nice to see you. My gosh. Michael, cause good, that's nice I mean,

**[0:12:33] Sean Hayes:** to see you too.

**[0:12:34] Will Arnett:** What is it? Legend Day on Smartless? it's I know, Or What a what

**[0:12:37] Jason Bateman:** I know. a troika, look at I mean, you, can I? I wanna call you sir? Can I call you Michael?

**[0:12:42] Michael Douglas:** no. M. Call me Mikey, you can call me,

**[0:12:44] Jason Bateman:** Mi Mikey?

**[0:12:44] Michael Douglas:** you can call me Mike

**[0:12:45] Jason Bateman:** I'll never, he'll never be Mikey. Mike. Mike. Mike Um, Ranting. Anyone? Chase you know,

**[0:12:49] Michael Douglas:** you?

**[0:12:49] Jason Bateman:** going through your your stuff, doing the the the modicum of research we do here. Um, I just, uh, I'm just knocked out, uh, sir. Um, the am the amount of of highest quality work possible that you've done with your time, uh, as well as just commercial success as well, and the producing, and then just the life you've lived when you're off the set. Uh, I just, I don't know how you've packed it all in, so thank God you've written a book about it.

**[0:13:20] Jason Bateman:** Uh uh, so happy you're here to share, What's the name of uh, some

**[0:13:23] Sean Hayes:** the book?

**[0:13:23] Jason Bateman:** of it.

**[0:13:24] Michael Douglas:** One hell of a ride. Oh, that's right, perfect title, perfect? that's right,

**[0:13:28] Jason Bateman:** perfect title.

**[0:13:28] Sean Hayes:** that's great.

**[0:13:29] Jason Bateman:** Um, well, um, I I, I mean, uh, can can we start near the beginning? I mean, I I just I. I would love

**[0:13:37] Sean Hayes:** good to know.

**[0:13:37] Jason Bateman:** to know, um, you know, obviously, y- your your father had a had a had a head start with things, um, and and and showing you what this business, uh, is is about and what it could be. Uh, how how early on did you think that you might want to do that as as well?

**[0:13:56] Michael Douglas:** Not too early. Um, I think no, I think probably being the the son of, uh, my mother was an actress too, and and so I was a a aware of the business. But I know you guys would find this hard to believe, but we are a fairly self-involved group. Uh, and uh, we li- we like and us. it is they talk about the order of, uh, you know, God, our country, uh, family, and then, uh, career.

**[0:14:25] Michael Douglas:** But I think for us in our business, career kinda comes first. So, um, I my my folks got divorced, um, at a very young age, when I was like, about five, um, they just going out to California, my father just started getting a movie career, and, uh, he, he, he probably kinda acted like he a guy who had never seen a girl before. So he, uh, it didn't take long before my mom would say, Eh, eh, no, I don't think this is gonna I'll stay in New work out.

**[0:14:55] Michael Douglas:** York. Yeah, yeah, Uh, so let's go back to New York kids. So I, I basically grew up as a, uh, as a New Yorker, um, as part of it, as being part of the royal family. We had a small apartment on the west side, facing the alley, he was on Central Park West, but it faced the alley. This was nineteen, nineteen, forty eight, forty nine.

**[0:15:17] Jason Bateman:** yeah. Central Park West facing west is not great.

**[0:15:20] Michael Douglas:** No, no, it was in the

**[0:15:21] Sean Hayes:** That's funny.

**[0:15:22] Michael Douglas:** beginning, and, uh, and so I knew them both as as as working working people, and as you know how anxious we all are to get a job. Um, and um, they weren't ready to make those sort of, I think, choices between the family and stuff. So my early years were sort of bouncing back and forth between going to private schools, uh, private schools in New York City, and all boys schools and uniforms. And then going out to California on the holidays to visit my father, whose career incrementally was continuing to, uh, to improve and beginning to get a taste of that Hollywood.

**[0:15:58] Will Arnett:** Did you get a did you get a feel of that? When you were back in New York and you're at the you're at school? You must have obviously your dad, of course, as you said, started to work more and more and be, you know, was a a a m major movie star. D How did that start to impact your life when you were back kinda living in New York life?

**[0:16:15] Michael Douglas:** Well, you know, kids, uh, kids are inherently nasty, and the truth is, uh, I don't

**[0:16:23] Will Arnett:** there's our quote.

**[0:16:23] Michael Douglas:** know, I don't know. They do any of you guys go to camp or anything? Did you ever go to camp? sure. It's Yeah, it's Do, do, awful. It's brutal. awful, you guys know it? awful. So inherently, if the kids know something more about you than you know about them, and then my kids, oh, his kids, a movie star. Oh, he must think he's hot shit, you know, you haven't opened your mouth yet, you know, already, oh, he's hot shit.

**[0:16:48] Michael Douglas:** So where you get him? So you already realized that there were pluses that went along with it, uh, but the minuses were the fact that they had something on you. They could make assumptions about who you were and what your background was, uh, which which was was was difficult to to some a point. So getting back to your question, Jason, I think that's why I thought this was the last thing that I wanted to be involved in.

**[0:17:14] Michael Douglas:** It was this sort of very kind of self-involved, uh, film. My mother was, uh, you know, she was doing soap operas back east, on stage, and so we had, uh, um, nannies or housekeepers and a big, big part of, uh, uh, a part of our life.

**[0:17:29] Jason Bateman:** But but the l- but the the life out there in in Hollywood, you know, watching what your dad was doing, um, uh, all the things that go along with it. Was that the first draw to it, or was it more about the craft and the art? And and because you, you did, you did study quite vigorously in in New York and did a bunch of theater and like, so when, when was, when was, uh, a a at what point did the craft sort of t uh, motivate you into the career versus maybe the lifestyle, or was the lifestyle ever an attraction to you?

**[0:18:00] Michael Douglas:** No, I think the biggest advantage of being second generation is that lifestyle's not a surprise to you. You understand, you understand the insecurities, the foibles. I'm with my father and his best friends, Tony Curtis, Janet Leigh, Gregory Peck, Frank Sinatra. Wild, You see them at night,

**[0:18:19] Sean Hayes:** it's crazy.

**[0:18:19] Michael Douglas:** you see them as real people, and and their insecurities, and this and that. So, no, the reality to me was when I was in college and and had to declare a major, and it it's a little different. What happened, Jason? I? I went to University of California, Santa Barbara, after going to boys schools my entire life, right? Including prep schools, all boys schools. And I remember my senior year, you know, in in prep school, you know, you have your college advisor.

**[0:18:49] Michael Douglas:** And they always reminded me of, like, travel agents, you know, they had these brochures in their hands, and they would go through these brochures like a travel. You'd sit there and all of a sudden, wait wait, stop. And he pulled out this brochure, and there wasn't any Ivy League buildings or anything else. It was sort of a high shot of a guy walking down the beach carrying a surfboard in a bathing suit, and on either side of him was a girl in a two-piece bathing suit.

**[0:19:19] Michael Douglas:** Now, this was 1963. I had never seen back east a two-piece bathing suit in my life, not yet on a college brochure. So I said, Hey, hey, hey, I said, I'm going,

**[0:19:31] Jason Bateman:** that looks good.

**[0:19:32] Michael Douglas:** I'm going there, man, I'm I'm gonna You mean, go there.

**[0:19:34] Jason Bateman:** like, didn't you get accepted into Yale? I did Yeah, so and. And you were like, Yeah, but look at the bikinis, no, you know, you know, I mean,

**[0:19:41] Michael Douglas:** and my m Jason, my ass was so tight in in in boarding school that I knew I had to I. I, I had to get you had some catching in. the beaches

**[0:19:49] Jason Bateman:** up to do.

**[0:19:49] Will Arnett:** in New the beaches in New Haven don't really stack up to the beaches in Santa Barbara. You know what I mean?

**[0:19:55] Michael Douglas:** So that was the that was actually s at sixteen or eighteen, and that was the best. That was the first big decision and a crucial decision in my life. Because for a number of reasons, it was 1963, sixty four, Vietnam war, as, uh, as just beginning. East Coast is where the most political activity was going on. Berkeley was leading the the ground, the other UC campuses, uh, uh, were picking up on it, and also the hippie movement, uh, which played a really important part in my in my life.

**[0:20:30] Michael Douglas:** So what happened after the first year of college at University of California? They politely said, Look, I don't think you're ready for college. Why don't you take? It wasn't really a kicking you out, but why don't you take a year's off of your break? And that's when I went to the Mobil gas station, my hometown of Westport, Connecticut, and was the Mobil man of the month. Well, those were the days in a gas station, I mean, you guys don't even know those days.

**[0:20:56] Michael Douglas:** In a gas station. When you went to get gas, they had your windshield wipers washed, you Check the oil, had your oil was checked, you had tires. your tire pressure checked.

**[0:21:05] Will Arnett:** You know what I remem- you know what you're reminding me of, remember? You must have known this a all too well. Do you remember the sound of that ding? They'd have that hose that go across when a car go ahead. pulls up,

**[0:21:13] Sean Hayes:** you know, they're there.

**[0:21:13] Will Arnett:** ding, ding, do you remember that, JB, when your car would roll up? I love oh, I love that. That doesn't exist anymore. I just I loved this. I don't know. It's it's nostalgic It's for you.

**[0:21:20] Jason Bateman:** true, that does not exist anymore. I wonder,

**[0:21:22] Sean Hayes:** right back.

**[0:21:23] Jason Bateman:** did, did, uh, Michael, was that was there a name for that? for that hose? is it like, was it called the ding hose? I'm serious, what's m, but yourself,

**[0:21:30] Michael Douglas:** the ding? Jason, Hose? And yeah, myself, yeah, the ding

**[0:21:32] Jason Bateman:** the ding hose. hose.

**[0:21:34] Will Arnett:** let's see, let's see you watching, let's see you eating that banana again. JB, Uh,

**[0:21:37] Jason Bateman:** And Sean, you had a problem with your ding hose the other day, and we will be right back.

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**[0:24:58] Sean Hayes:** And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Smartless. It's the best way to support the show. And now back to the show.

**[0:25:11] Michael Douglas:** So what happened? What happened is I came back to college after my year off, I came back to college, and I begun

**[0:25:18] Will Arnett:** to Santa Barbara?

**[0:25:19] Michael Douglas:** to Santa Barbara. Had begun to be involved with a, uh, let's say the artistic group at on the campus, that that group that held out, hung, hung out in the corner of the student union and and raincoats and dark cloaks and this and that. And was introduced to this, uh, you know, this this whole other, whole other world. Um, and when I came back, um, the went to the V, the vice chancellor, he said.

**[0:25:47] Michael Douglas:** Well, you know, you gotta declare a major. I said, What? And by this time, man, by this time, I'd, you know, gotten into it a little bit, man. And so I said, I said, What do you mean? So you have to declare a major? I don't know, man. I, I said, and so I said, I guess the only thing I know the most about is theater, you know, I know my dad, I watched this, so still never having an inkling about acting or anything like that.

**[0:26:14] Michael Douglas:** That was when I declared theater as my major and began my pursuit you start doing it, on that ar- on that area, uh, which I was not a natural at.

**[0:26:24] Jason Bateman:** no, but, uh, you seem pretty natural to me. I mean, I, I don't I. I gather that, you know, y- you didn't. You didn't learn how to be such a great actor in in in class. I bet you were, oh, obviously, you were born with a lot of it, it's in your DNA. But um, uh, can can you recall the the sort of the your style and your ease with it and your talent with it? Uh, growing over the years, and and and did you?

**[0:26:51] Jason Bateman:** Did you feel like you had enough under your feet? When you went into, say, I would imagine the big launch was Streets of San Francisco. Did you feel that you were equipped enough to to take on that role? And And vault you into, um, uh, a an ability to make a living in the business? No, I, uh, I, next question.

**[0:27:14] Michael Douglas:** I began. I began with major major stage fright. I could not go on, I could not walk onto a stage without a waste basket right off stage, which I would puke into

**[0:27:26] Sean Hayes:** Really?

**[0:27:26] Michael Douglas:** before I go on to stage. I had total stage fright, and I never thought I'd be overcoming. And the only reason, the only reason I think I actually stayed at it was to try to overcome the stage fright.

**[0:27:42] Jason Bateman:** and what did it?

**[0:27:43] Michael Douglas:** So one big thing happened in here at this time was that after my sophomore season, my stepfather, William Darrett, who I grew up with, was on the board of a new theater called the National Playwrights Conference in Waterford, Connecticut. And what they would do every summer is they would put on like six new plays, and they had a small acting a group that would, you know, would do these plays. And my first summer there, I was just sort of an apprentice, kind of cleaning up.

**[0:28:16] Michael Douglas:** But what happened is then they sort of allowed me to be part of the company, and the focus was on the material, on the play. You were only there as an actor, as a a a tool to make these plays better. So you would sit there and you would run through the scenes, you run through the show, then you would sit on the sidelines and listen to the notes that the director would be giving to the playwright in ways of how to improve the quality.

**[0:28:45] Michael Douglas:** So, at a very early age, right at the beginning, I learned that everything was the material, everything was about the quality of the material.

**[0:28:55] Will Arnett:** And that allowed you to get out of your head about the result of your performance.

**[0:28:59] Michael Douglas:** It certainly helped, it certainly helped, but it allowed me, uh, to help understand the choices that I made professionally later on. I e. It wasn't about the part, it wasn't about who he's starring, it's it's about how good. I think this is gonna be a good movie. And because I had these years of of of formation on it, and then I was, you know, so then after school, I was doing off Broadway in New York, um, and finally got a a CBS playhouse, which they did on television, which turned out really well.

**[0:29:34] Michael Douglas:** And CBS back then had a film division. I signed a contract, I went out to California and proceeded to make five turkeys, five, five really shitty movies. Um, one, the one I remember about it, because CBS also owned Radio City Music Hall, and, uh, the the movie was shown at Radio City Music Hall. And this friend of mine, John Guare, who's one of the playwrights that I had met at the O'Neill,

**[0:30:06] Sean Hayes:** yeah, amazing.

**[0:30:07] Michael Douglas:** I. He called me. I said, John, did you see the show? He said, Yeah, yeah, well, what'd you think? He said. Michael, let me just say, there were more people up on stage with the Rockettes than there were in the audience. So

**[0:30:18] Will Arnett:** but y- you know, you know, not to sort of g- to go go back a little bit, but you know, it's interesting. When I hear you as a young actor and you have that experience with the playwrights and that and that, that process, that must have helped you carried you on. Because you've had such a prolific career also as a producer, and it must have you. You had an early appreciation of what it is to build a thing, that it's about the material, all that stuff.

**[0:30:43] Will Arnett:** Is is that true? Is that accurate?

**[0:30:44] Michael Douglas:** that's exactly true, uh, and and that's why I can't emphasize it enough, uh, of of how important it was not looking for parts. So anyway, after these the five turkeys, I was sort of sliding into television, and this is where, you know, where good luck, you know, just good grace happens for you. And two things happened to me early in my career was I was doing FBI's and medical centers and and this and that. And then, uh, Streets came up, and Streets was a lawsuit that, uh, Quinn Martin, who was a very big time producer at that time, The Fugitive, Cannon, Barnaby, had all these shows, uh, that he did, they used to do.

**[0:31:28] Michael Douglas:** Uh, Quinn had this lawsuit with this brand new network called ABC, and he won the lawsuit. And the result of winning the lawsuit was a two-hour introduction movie to the series and twenty-six hour episodes committed, like in the first season. So they s, you know, for a guy, so my agent said, Hey, man, this is, this is, this is a real great opportunity.

**[0:31:52] Jason Bateman:** it's a ghost show. Go show,

**[0:31:52] Michael Douglas:** And it starred Carl Malden and Carl Malden, you know, was worshiped by by Marlon Brando. And and was just an an unbelievably hardworking actor and a really good actor. So that was five years. I did 104 hours, uh, that I spent with Carl Malden. And also, structurally, once again, preludes, three acts, you know, prologues, learning structurally, you know, and what your responsibility as an actor is, and then working with different directors every week.

**[0:32:29] Michael Douglas:** And this was was so was so helpful and was was a was a tremendous opportunity. And then the the God from God was handed down was the was windflow of the cuckoo's nest, which was a project. incredible. My father had developed and gone back himself to Broadway to do the show. It hadn't worked out. I had read in college Twentieth Century American literature, the book, like everybody who's taken acid, it was their favorite, uh, their favorite, uh, their favorite novel.

**[0:33:02] Michael Douglas:** And then, as I was working away, and then I sort of overheard dad talking about selling the project. When I was there, I said, Oh, man, and I never thought about producing, but dad, please let me try to get this set up. I'll try to get it set up, you know, with you playing the part, with the production company and all this.

**[0:33:20] Jason Bateman:** so the original idea was for your dad to play the lead part,

**[0:33:23] Michael Douglas:** Correct?

**[0:33:23] Jason Bateman:** not you.

**[0:33:25] Michael Douglas:** Oh, correct, no, it was, it was, it was gonna be his part.

**[0:33:27] Will Arnett:** how how old? Excuse me, how old were you at the time? I mean, this is ambitious.

**[0:33:30] Michael Douglas:** Uh, yeah, it was ambitious. I was I. I started about I was twenty-three, I was twenty-three going Wow. When on, thirty. that movie came Yeah,

**[0:33:38] Sean Hayes:** out, that's amazing.

**[0:33:38] Michael Douglas:** and but the movie, by the time the movie came out, I w- I was thirty, uh, but he was so he tried. So then he said, Well, give me a year, let me try to get it going. And so while I was doing Streets of San Francisco, which was being filmed in San Francisco, and we were shooting twenty-six episodes on location. So six, six days a week, right, six days a week, eight, eight and a half months straight.

**[0:34:09] Michael Douglas:** I well, was a motherfucker. I mean, I you're not was, you know, God, you're I was, you not. You're in every know, you couldn't, f- it scene. Yeah, seems, you know, you couldn't ask, uh, for any harder work. At the same time, I was able to hook up with, uh, this got my partner, Saul Zan, over at Fantasy Records in Berkeley, which is up there, so I would then go on over to to Berkeley. We would work and nurture it, and so by the time I finished the fourth season, uh, we were able to make the movie.

**[0:34:37] Jason Bateman:** and they wrote your character off to free you up to give you the time to do all the finishing work on the producing. Yes,

**[0:34:43] Michael Douglas:** Correct, Jason, but the reality is that, and we all know, and I know, you know that, you know, for a a network to say, I have a five-year contract with you, right? But we're gonna let you out. It doesn't happen, man, it doesn't happen at all.

**[0:35:00] Jason Bateman:** well, what do you? What do you think? You? What do you think you saw in that project that that no one else saw? Because you, you did get a series of passes there. It did take a while to get it going, and then it go, then it does eventually go on to, uh, become the film that it is. Wins all five major Academy Awards. Um, uh, you know, and you're thirty-one, and, uh, uh, what, what do you?

**[0:35:21] Jason Bateman:** what do you? It couldn't have been blind luck. Um, what, what? What do you think you saw in it? That, uh, that that everyone else ended up finally seeing?

**[0:35:30] Michael Douglas:** I I think I saw that it was a really, really good story, you know, a re really classic story. And I think I overcame everybody saying, Um, you know, who wants to see another snake pit? That was the big thing. Who wants to see? No one wants to see a picture about crazy people. And I bought later while I checked out, and they and Snake Pit did very well. Thank you very much. And it wasn't the it wasn't the thing that happened, but I think it was the it was the in the innocence of not having been burnt yet.

**[0:36:01] Michael Douglas:** And and making the mistakes. And and Saul, my partner, sort of was the same way, so and we were strictly, strictly an independent picture. But, uh, we went, you know, and I remember, so Saul and I went to talk to the directors. And most of them were up in the San Francisco Bay area, and they were all kinda smug. And you know, we tried to talk to them, and they kinda kept their cards close to their vest.

**[0:36:25] Michael Douglas:** You really couldn't feel what it was gonna be. And yeah. When did we came

**[0:36:29] Jason Bateman:** you get Milos Forman?

**[0:36:30] Michael Douglas:** back and we found Milos, and we remember Yeah, my looking. Someone told me god, about Milos and a couple of his pictures, his his Czech pictures. One was called The Fireman's Ball, which was i in in one way was similar to Cuckoo's Nest in that all the characters took place like in one room and had the right sort of humor. And, uh, Milos was in the middle of sort of a breakdown, he was living in the Chelsea Hotel in New York, and, uh, he that's where they had, uh, he, happen.

**[0:37:01] Michael Douglas:** he had a friend of his, Ivan Passard, also a Czech director. And Milos would give Ivan Passard all his information about what he wanted Ivan to tell his shrink. And then Ivan would go instead of Ivan, and Milos would leave, Ivan would go for for Milos to to the shrink and, uh, share all this stuff and try and come back. So the fact that when they got the script to Milos, he flew all the way out to California.

**[0:37:32] Michael Douglas:** And he sat down with us at my my place up in Benedict Canyon and opened the first page, and he told us exactly what he wanted to do. I remember, and Saul and I just started crying. We were just like, Okay, here's a man who's gonna share with us what we want so much. And so

**[0:37:51] Sean Hayes:** How about that?

**[0:37:52] Jason Bateman:** When did Jack Nicholson come on board? Was that Milos's idea? Was it studio? Was it you guys?

**[0:37:56] Michael Douglas:** it was, no, no, he. We tried, uh, we tried to get Gene Hackman, Gene Hackman passed.

**[0:38:01] Jason Bateman:** At what point did your father? f- what? po- at what point did your father say, Yeah, it's not gonna be for me, go cast it?

**[0:38:05] Michael Douglas:** no, that's that's not the way it went down. It didn't no. The moment came, the moment came. When I had to go to dad and say, Dad, we got it going. Uh, but you're it's not gonna be you playing McMurphy. wow, how'd that conversation And, uh,

**[0:38:22] Jason Bateman:** go?

**[0:38:22] Michael Douglas:** uh, you know, careers had changed. He was in his sixties by then, uh, and the b-b business had changed, and it took me even a long time. I'm sure you guys don't realize y- you can count on three fingers the good parts you have in your life, you know, the really good parts you have in your life. And this was one of them. This was a great part, and he was hurt, upset. I mean, I gave him half of m our my producing deal, which ended up being more money than he made at any picture he'd ever done in his life, which made things a little, a little easier.

**[0:39:01] Michael Douglas:** But, uh, it was the toughest thing I ever had to do, you know, a, and

**[0:39:05] Jason Bateman:** oh, I'll bet.

**[0:39:06] Michael Douglas:** it was rough. How long I bet

**[0:39:07] Sean Hayes:** did it take to repair that kind of relationship after that?

**[0:39:12] Michael Douglas:** That's a good question, you know? I talk about it in my book, you know, uh, a lot, and I had the greatest adoration for my father. Um, but he was rough, uh, when we were kids. He he was out of that, he was out of that abusive, abusive generation, you know? Uh, You did

**[0:39:29] Sean Hayes:** something wrong, you'd get slapped he or get gets back or something. Yeah, big time. And yeah, sure, um, so we were,

**[0:39:34] Michael Douglas:** you know, we were pretty scared of him. And and not to mention the fact that he just was this omnipotent character, you know, Christ, bardicuss, and vikings,

**[0:39:43] Jason Bateman:** sure, yeah, of course.

**[0:39:44] Michael Douglas:** and he just larger than life, and he had a temper that went along with it. So our our relationship was not was cautious, uh, growing growing up, and my love for him grew and grew to the day he died and my admiration. But in the early days, um, it wasn't there, uh, for sure, and that, that, and that certainly didn't help, you know, the relationship.

**[0:40:08] Will Arnett:** what would you? There? Maybe maybe maybe you mentioned this in the book, I don't know, I haven't I. I'm really look forward to reading it. But was was

**[0:40:14] Jason Bateman:** me too.

**[0:40:14] Will Arnett:** there a moment where you guys were able to sort of you got over it and you guys were able to reconcile? Did you ever have the I don't know the what's the word closure that you wanted from it, from from this experience of it?

**[0:40:26] Michael Douglas:** I I, we did, I mean, uh, we did, you know, at a at a professional point in time, which I think really was, uh, f- for me, it was the year, uh, the year of, uh, of Fatal Attraction, followed by Wall Street

**[0:40:41] Sean Hayes:** it's unbelievable.

**[0:40:41] Michael Douglas:** three months later, and winning the Oscar.

**[0:40:44] Jason Bateman:** Yeah, what a year.

**[0:40:44] Michael Douglas:** And for me, finally feeling like I stepped out of the shadow of this, uh, of this, of this amazing guy.

**[0:40:51] Sean Hayes:** you know, I. For the first time ever in my entire life, about two months ago, I watched Wall Street. Yeah, I just saw it, and I I was blown, of course, I was blown away. And you and you say, Michael, there's three roles that are, you know, that an actor gets you've had. I feel like you've had men. fifteen.

**[0:41:06] Will Arnett:** I know I was gonna say there's an incredible run. First of all, you mentioned Fatal Attraction. You can't. Uh, you don't know how many times in my life I've used the expression perfect I said, I will movie, not be ignored, Dave. Um, but you, you was there, was there a mo- what was that moment? Because you did have this incredible run of these great roles. What what was the first coming out of Cuckoo's Nest as a producer?

**[0:41:28] Will Arnett:** And you'd done streets, you'd done all this stuff. What was the first film role that you were like, Okay, now I'm I'm in a I'm in a whole whole different league here now. You know, this is getting the attention and n- now I'm getting the offered the roles. I want. Do you remember that? Was there a singular Well, yeah, but moment?

**[0:41:43] Michael Douglas:** he but h- h- here's the gig. I was an Academy Award-winning producer, but I was a television actor. I was, and you all know, it's it's that really it's gotten it, it's still gotten a lot better. But back then, man, it was two separate rails. You're in television, and I think before me, the only other thing was Steve McQueen and, uh, and Clint Eastwood, who had made that transition from then from go getting into films. So I got the Oscar.

**[0:42:14] Michael Douglas:** I've set up as a production office as a producer, and I'm d and I'm and I'm I'm ha- and I'm hanging on to what I realize is my biggest strength, which is understanding material, knowing good material, not worrying about my part, not worrying if and you said he good roles, but a lot of my movies, you know, uh, Glenn Close, ha- had had had a great role. Sharon Stone had a lot of times, it was never about s my starring role.

**[0:42:44] Michael Douglas:** I just wanted to be in a good movie, and I think it was better yeah, but to be

**[0:42:48] Will Arnett:** yeah, but you shone through, you shone through, no matter

**[0:42:51] Michael Douglas:** well, thank you.

**[0:42:51] Will Arnett:** e- even though you say that despite you were, yeah, man, I mean, I integral to It's what all of those.

**[0:42:56] Jason Bateman:** it's what I've, what I've watched and studied and admired for so long about you, Michael, in your career, is that it? It's so it's so interesting to hear you s put to words what I guess I've been absorbing. Which is that you've always been servicing the the film, the story there, there's. I've never watched you and thought, Oh, this guy is doing me a favor and giving me a performance that he thinks I bought a ticket to come see.

**[0:43:26] Jason Bateman:** No, uh, like, you've always behaved on screen, a assuming that the audience has bought a ticket to see the film, not you. Um, and so you've always just disappeared, and you've been you've been us on the screen. You've been this, this, this trustworthy proxy that is experiencing whatever story is going on around you. And it's just been it, it's been, it's been a it's been a real gift that that you've given. I can just speak for myself, you've given me.

**[0:43:57] Jason Bateman:** You have been this great proxy, this great tour guide that have brought me through, uh, so many great stories and environments and and challenges and and complications and decisions and successes. All through your characters on these, in these, in these, uh, in these stories, it's just it's just been stunning. I, I just I couldn't imagine having a better career. Uh, truly. Well, it's just Um,

**[0:44:20] Michael Douglas:** say, thank, thank you very much. It it is true, because the the the one note that I hear more than anything else from people is, you know, when I see your name, I don't know what it's gonna be, but I know it's gonna be good. that's exactly Yeah, that's a great And and that's exactly and

**[0:44:36] Will Arnett:** yeah, I mean, what a c- what a compliment. And I I remember hearing a story once. This guy was telling about a big movie star, I'm not gonna name names, a big movie star, went in. He was having, this is tw- thirty years ago, and he went into a studio with a well-known studio executive who we all know as well. He and the star, the movie star, was saying, you know what, I? Wa- He came in late and he said, I wanna do this, I wanna do that, that.

**[0:44:55] Will Arnett:** And the executive stopped him and said, Hey, motherfucker, I'll put the guard at the gate in your role. You're not the star, the movie is the star. right, that's right And it always stuck now, more than with me, that ever. Yeah, story, like that idea. It kind of goes back to what you were saying, Michael, just always. It's it's the story, it's the film, right? And it's it's important. Even hearing you say it now, it's like, Uh, uh, I've just absorbed that and been like, Yeah, I gotta remember that, I gotta remember so that.

**[0:45:19] Will Arnett:** So

**[0:45:20] Michael Douglas:** starting after that, then I, you know, I, I got a run of a good productions. Not again, not because after after Cuckoo's Nest, um, I had romancing the stone, uh, which, uh, I wasn't gonna

**[0:45:32] Jason Bateman:** so great.

**[0:45:32] Michael Douglas:** play the part, I just I couldn't get an actor to play the part, you know, I, I, I tried to get. And then finally, I was fortunate enough. Uh, the studio wanted Debra Winger, uh, that's another story, and, uh, and then, and then, and it worked out, and then finally the studio, you know, had met Kathleen Turner was. She'd done, um, a sexy picture, she made, uh,

**[0:45:57] Jason Bateman:** Oh, the heat of the no, not the heat of the night. you know, Um,

**[0:45:59] Michael Douglas:** co- um, with with, uh, uh, Bill Hurt, um,

**[0:46:03] Jason Bateman:** yeah, I know what you're talking about. I can see the poster right now. bye-bye, Was that before or after China Syndrome?

**[0:46:09] Michael Douglas:** that was after, and then Chi China Syndrome. Uh, again, originally, I wasn't gonna play the part Richard Dreyfuss was gonna play the f- the third role such in that,

**[0:46:19] Jason Bateman:** a great movie.

**[0:46:20] Michael Douglas:** uh, and then the jewel in the island. So I had like four more hits as a producer. I, I happened to be in them, but didn't have parts. But I had, you know, I was developing a movie called Starman, with Jeff Bridges, too. I, I w- I wasn't,

**[0:46:33] Sean Hayes:** I love that movie.

**[0:46:34] Michael Douglas:** I wasn't approved, I wasn't approved as the actor, uh, for for

**[0:46:38] Will Arnett:** no shit.

**[0:46:38] Michael Douglas:** the yeah, no, I'm I was producing. Jeff was, you know? So there was still a lot of that for, uh, for a while.

**[0:46:46] Jason Bateman:** we'll be right back.

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**[0:49:00] Jason Bateman:** And then what was the thing that gave you the sort of the the the box office juice to be able to be the film star? Uh, was, was it, was it that year, Fatal Attraction Wall Street in eighty seven? Okay,

**[0:49:11] Michael Douglas:** that was, that was really kind of where it it. It was okay, it's put to bed now, or at least I did.

**[0:49:18] Will Arnett:** I mean, that's that's bizarre to me to think to think that it was that late,

**[0:49:22] Michael Douglas:** Yeah, I had some hostilities about it. I mean, I

**[0:49:24] Will Arnett:** really?

**[0:49:24] Michael Douglas:** did about the well, about the whole television thing versus feature film, it's always been

**[0:49:29] Jason Bateman:** But as a producer, though, you must have been cognizant of sort of minding the pocketbook and what what star could translate to a pr- a a presumed base level of ticket sales based on what they did in the last film and all that stuff. So you, you were probably aware a little bit of of what the studio's agenda might have been and how it kinda made sense, even though it probably didn't feel any better. But

**[0:49:51] Michael Douglas:** I was, uh, Jason, but I was so fortunate from the very beginning that I only went on, um, this, i this is the best person for it. Or, or, I mean, I never ever took an audience's reaction into it. Another picture like that would be falling down, you know, falling falling great. down, which, uh, I,

**[0:50:12] Jason Bateman:** Joel Schumacher.

**[0:50:12] Michael Douglas:** I, I love, was a picture that, n- you know, nobody thought thought of, uh, was g- you know, your work at all. But I just, uh, realized how important those years at the O'Neill and then all those all those script episodes really just played such an important part in reminding me about structure and, uh, telling me how to tell a good, a good story. And also the reality that if I didn't do the part, man, there's ten other people that can, uh, that can well, you know, that can do it.

**[0:50:44] Jason Bateman:** most of these, most of these incredible characters that you've played, they're they're men who, uh, who are seemingly in in control, but they're they're, they're really, they're deeply flawed. And and uh, w- what, i what is it about those characters that, for you, make it so fun to play and to explore and and to kinda make your own?

**[0:51:03] Michael Douglas:** I think it's just the the the uh, generation that I grew up with. I think the Vietnam War made the gray area, who's the good guys, who's the bad guys. My dad's generations, they had white hats and black hats. My generation, eh, is a, oh, it's, it's been a little murky. And I s I seem to be attracted to the, you know, the person exploring that, that that, yeah,

**[0:51:32] Jason Bateman:** yeah, cause it does seem like, yeah, you, you're mentioning the the j- generation before. There was this, um, this, this, this artifice that that that the the male role needed to adopt or learn or carry. Um, and and then, you know, you playing these parts where the the fun for the audience is watching these these cracks in that veneer, in that artifice, and and seeing the vulnerabilities and the, uh, and the humanity in these in these, uh, outwardly seeming, uh, put together men.

**[0:52:01] Michael Douglas:** yeah. And but even looking back to to Cuckoo's Nest, we could not find an actress to play Nurse Ratched. Because the politics, the politics for women at that time, was, you know, you you don't, you don't wanna be a villain,

**[0:52:17] Will Arnett:** right, right, right. oh, interesting guys, one.

**[0:52:19] Sean Hayes:** That's interesting.

**[0:52:19] Michael Douglas:** right? Guys, guys love the villain part, right? We, oh man, we wanna play the villains, the most, uh, interesting part back then. And Grant, Bang, Bancroft, Colleen Dewhurst, Geraldine Page, they all turned it down. They, they didn't, they didn't wanna play play the, uh, play the part. Let me ask you guys a quick question.

**[0:52:39] Jason Bateman:** yes, sir.

**[0:52:39] Michael Douglas:** With all of your successful careers, man, Jason, I've watched you're a wonderful actor, but hell of a director, man, hell of a director you too.

**[0:52:47] Jason Bateman:** thank you, sir.

**[0:52:48] Michael Douglas:** Sean, what can I say? You guys worked Man, that's a together on Will great way. and Grace, I know we

**[0:52:52] Jason Bateman:** didn't you? didn't, we get Yeah,

**[0:52:53] Michael Douglas:** it. Will and Grace, and we h- how, he was how, how

**[0:52:55] Sean Hayes:** blown away.

**[0:52:56] Michael Douglas:** did this? How did you come about on this? And then I just see that you're live at Hollywood Bowl, so this is a this is a host biggie, sh- big thing, man.

**[0:53:05] Jason Bateman:** I, I mean, it's who it's. It's the greatest gift, it's the greatest gift that's ever come to this the three

**[0:53:10] Will Arnett:** is an accident. of us, you know, it was an the w- we get accident.

**[0:53:12] Jason Bateman:** to hang around and be idiots. Um, and uh, and and we get to talk to folks like you and and and have these conversations. And fortunately for us, there's a bunch of people out there that are willing to listen to us. So, yeah,

**[0:53:23] Will Arnett:** days like today are it? it never? it never feels like a job, but days like today talking to you is just it's unbelievable. And and

**[0:53:29] Sean Hayes:** yeah, I mean, and and like these are Michael, when you were on Will and Grace, I would have never asked you these questions. But now I now now, in this you wanted to, form, I'm I'm you wanted sure, thank you so

**[0:53:37] Will Arnett:** to, you wanted to, and the producers badly. told you not to, right?

**[0:53:40] Sean Hayes:** I was just like, blown away that I was acting with But you in a scene.

**[0:53:42] Will Arnett:** we can, I just add, so you, you do all this, I mean, y- you again, as Jason pointed out, and we all know. You have this incredible, you know, uh, you've all these incredible roles and all these incredible projects that you produced and that you shepherded and that you believed in when other people didn't. And so you do all this stuff. And then you i in the last, I don't forget when you did the first one, but you, you kind of dipped your toe and went fully into the Marvel world.

**[0:54:06] Will Arnett:** And all of a sudden you're doing a whole different genre of thing. Was that, was that like, uh, w- was, uh, did you exp- w- w- was that just like just another gig, or was like, it stepping into another world for you after all that you had done?

**[0:54:20] Michael Douglas:** right. Well, let me let me just back up, uh, a little bit, but it helps explain it. So w- what I've done in the book, you know, obviously, I've my my childhood, I think, is pretty interesting in terms of my mother being Bermudian and my father a Russian Jew, and how they came together at Academy and and all of that stuff, and and, um, and and growing up, and but then what I decided to do as a producer, a book that really meant a lot to me was a book called Memo by David O.

**[0:54:54] Michael Douglas:** Selznick. And if you ever get a chance, or ever interested to know what a producer does, read memo. And so what I thought I would do

**[0:55:03] Will Arnett:** I'm gonna do.

**[0:55:04] Michael Douglas:** Rather than just kinda continuing my history was I took 10 chapters and and I took 10 chapters, I took 10 movies and I go in depth. I mean, I mean, a whole length 30, 40 pages on each of them, talking about how it was created, initiated, what the steps were that came through it all, what personal involvements there might have been in the making of it, and so that takes up a a good chunk.

**[0:55:36] Michael Douglas:** And then for me, um, I remember I got, um, I got cancer. I, uh, I got stage 4 cancer, um, and, uh, things weren't looking great. And so this is moving on after a whole crux of stuff. And after, uh, cancer, and and, uh, and and after I survived and, uh, and got out of it, I was really fortunate enough to have this Liberace project, uh, with Steven Soderbergh and Matt, uh, Damon and And the Candelabra, which was

**[0:56:12] Will Arnett:** Yeah, fantastic.

**[0:56:12] Michael Douglas:** Great. And then I just said, Well, look, what haven't I done? But But what do I want? Now now what I what do I wanna do now that now that mortality is a more of an interesting subject for me than it was before. And I said, Well, you know, I've never done a green screen. I haven't done a green screen picture, so I wanna do that. And that was that was, uh, uh, how that that's, you know, sort of started, and, uh, so, you know, I, but that looked around the agents and, um, and the Ant-Man thing came up, and and it was fascinating, and I'm sure If you guys are familiar with green screen, but, you

**[0:56:47] Michael Douglas:** know, it's it's another type of acting. It's It's it's it's it's interesting. It's weird, you and some people are really good at it. And then the other thing is, I said, Well, what else have you done? Well, I love comedy. I lo- I love comedy. I'm not particularly good at It, but I I I just appreciate it. I never know why it's not nominated for Oscars every

**[0:57:09] Will Arnett:** Yeah, me neither. Year. We all Neither of us.

**[0:57:10] Michael Douglas:** Appreciate comedians and and funny people. So this situation with, uh, with Chuck Lorre and Alan Arkin The Kominsky method, Yeah. So I said, Kominsky. Man, what a chance to to Learn

**[0:57:23] Sean Hayes:** Oh, that's right.

**[0:57:24] Michael Douglas:** You know, fuck to learn the comedy. I mean, Chuck Lorre is Like the Alan Arkin. So I did that, I did that, and Then finally, I me I said, I've never done a period picture. Every movie I make is about contemporary Situations and all of that. So the Ben Franklin series, Uh, came up 8 episodes took all year that, and after that, I realized I was tired, you know, deeply tired. And I took a like but a lifetime a lifetime tired and I sort of stopped working, not retired, stopped working, but I love not working.

**[0:58:01] Michael Douglas:** I love not working.

**[0:58:02] Will Arnett:** Well, it's giving you a chance to to sit and review, uh, how Well, how Yeah, and enjoy it Well you've All. Spent your

**[0:58:09] Sean Hayes:** Yeah. Incredible.

**[0:58:09] Will Arnett:** Years. I mean, good God, You know what, Michael, We ask a lot of that. It's funny, you just answered a thing. We we ask a lot of people, we say, uh, you know, you've done this, and you've been you're known for this genre or whatever, and we say, is there anything that you haven't done? And I like the idea that you you kept asking yourself, what What haven't Is the thing I

**[0:58:27] Sean Hayes:** I done?

**[0:58:27] Will Arnett:** Haven't done? And and really gone for it. And and there's a sort of, uh, I think that's a great way to approach it, right? To like, how can I challenge myself now? I I mean, is that what you would say to young actors to have that mindset?

**[0:58:41] Michael Douglas:** Well, I don't I don't know what to say to him now, but it's so damn tough. It is so Damned bad. You Know? No, there's no ca- I mean, casting, you don't see a casting agent anymore. No, you're You gotta do A self tape. They have They never they they don't even have offices anymore. So You know, you used to go in And see your casting agent, you know, and they Get to know you. It's it's so tough.

**[0:59:01] Michael Douglas:** I've got 3 kids, all who are actors, they're doing okay, uh, but it's tough. But, uh, but to finish this Off, so, all that happened, then back when I had the cancer, there was a guy named Shane Salerno who, eh, eh, did a rewrite for me really early on, and I was shocked when you how few people reach out to me with cancer. Maybe something about cancer, they don't want I get, you know, but nobody there you get much.

**[0:59:28] Michael Douglas:** Shane, who I hardly knew, he every day would write me these, you know, you can do a kick. And you're going to make you're going to be fine. No, you can't do. Anyways, so Shane's got a a a literary agency kind of company now. And then he just kept pushing me, hocking me about doing a book and doing a book. And and then I thought about it, and I think, you know, between dad and I, now we got 90 years 90 years

**[0:59:53] Sean Hayes:** Yeah, stories.

**[0:59:53] Michael Douglas:** Between the film in the film Industry, 160 movies. Uh, my dad, uh, was a very prolific, he wrote about 10 books, so just for a legacy, I figured, you know, I would keep it going for a legacy to write the book, and then also for my memory, because, Uh, you forget a lot of Were you were Shit.

**[1:00:11] Will Arnett:** You were you were you, uh, were you happy with your level of recall? I have a hard time remembering last week, um, but it like, did was that what what was that process like? I would imagine you wouldn't know how good it's gonna be until you start getting into it, um, but it sounds like you you've it's crystal clear on all of this incredible detail.

**[1:00:32] Michael Douglas:** Jason, it's I'll tell you my secret right now. Hire someone to start looking going back over your diary and just start placing It together each year because you have no idea. I had no idea. And then in The book, I talk about it a a lot where, uh, the years of some heavy drug use, uh, can mess this up and be Careful what you wish for. Because all of a sudden, I had a big production company, I could finance movies, I had people running it, I lost that ability to pick one thing at a time, and, uh, and I was a little overwhelmed, uh, you know, Had issues with my son, he was in federal prison for 7 1/2 years,

**[1:01:13] Michael Douglas:** my first marriage, so, um, I look back and, um, I'm happy I talked about the the the, uh, the demise, the downfall of cocaine. For one, you know, Sure. Same It didn't go well.

**[1:01:27] Will Arnett:** Same. Uh, i is do do you when you when you do look back and you and you and you've written this book and you talk about all these things, and these are it's just life, right? I mean, these These are things that happen in life, and I I I feel like now we're all in our, uh, mid to late 50s, could play easily could play 40s, right? You could You can be Do yeah, The old Early 30s, Man.

**[1:01:44] Will Arnett:** 30s late 30s

**[1:01:44] Michael Douglas:** Old 40s, maybe. Maybe.

**[1:01:45] Will Arnett:** Is that, uh, but but, you know, you are when you look back, are you are you, despite the things that you know, the great success and and thing and and and struck tough times, when you look back, do you go like, Hey, you know what? It kind of you feel okay about it in that way, like, do you feel?

**[1:02:01] Michael Douglas:** Oh, shit, yeah. I mean, uh, well, First of all, you know, h- Hollywood royalty. I mean, you know, which which really this this nepo thing really pisses me off because I don't know a career where a father or mother don't try to help their son or daughter get into their Business, and this and that, and why why they picked on this because of of the of the well-known, uh, aspect of it. But yeah, no, I I I like, I said, what a ride, man, it's been it's been it's been unbelievable and, um, um, other other than, uh, uh, too much drug abuse, uh, I can't, you Know, I can't.

**[1:02:40] Michael Douglas:** Well, you Well, my Know, by the way, Mom was Sorry, I'm Jimmy. I Wh-

**[1:02:42] Will Arnett:** Was gonna say it's funny You say the nepo thing. It's like, we don't chase down when we see a plumbing truck that says Mcglinnon Sons, We don't go, Hey, You nepo assholes! Well, that's what

**[1:02:49] Jason Bateman:** I that's what that's what I was gonna say. It it's not exclusive to the entertainment industry. There There are sons and daughters It is everywhere, Of of, But they but Uh,

**[1:02:57] Michael Douglas:** They make it like it's it's like we're the only one, you know, Well, We're

**[1:03:00] Jason Bateman:** You you managed to, uh, to to weather that all very well seemingly is it Is there something that you can say to the the children of, uh, of To our Of of parents Kids. Our kids or, you know, kids in the entire but kids in any industry that feel like they might have a burden of living through or up to the shadow of the generation before them, is there is there something that that really helped you navigate that, uh, as successfully as you did?

**[1:03:28] Michael Douglas:** Recognizing good material. I mean, not not counting on I mean, I'm getting something the the problem we all have is we don't we don't play an instrument, we don't paint, we don't write, you know, we're standing there. But a good piece of material, man, a good piece of Material helps the helps things, uh, a a along, uh, uh, Go well.

**[1:03:52] Jason Bateman:** But but personally, that that sort of conversation you have with yourself about, Am I even going to try to, um, live up to or even exceed, um, what has come before me? What What was it that you identified in yourself that gave you kind of the the in the the inner strength to do that?

**[1:04:13] Michael Douglas:** I think it was in inherited from my father who had incredible stamina, tenacity, was a motherfucker. Uh, and, You know, it was just really, uh, really, really tough. Uh, and Could could you know, hang on there. This is, as we all know, this is not a business if, uh, rejection is is gonna bend you over, you know, it's it's rejection is the fuel. I think it makes you tougher and and and stronger, and I think you have to create your own your own identity, you have to trust in yourself rather than, um, Try to become a a an image of a of a relative or That that's Something like

**[1:04:57] Sean Hayes:** True for life. That. Always be Yeah. I mean,

**[1:04:59] Michael Douglas:** Because for all the stuff, E- But I I just I'm I'm 82 now, and I've just recently said Hey, man, with all this stuff, there's there's not a lot of two generation movie stars, you know what I mean? I said,

**[1:05:10] Jason Bateman:** No, sir.

**[1:05:11] Michael Douglas:** That's I can't name any, you know, so Yeah, you Pat yourself on the back, man, and, you know, You rock. Get pat Yourself on The back. Well, you, sir, that Incredible.

**[1:05:19] Jason Bateman:** That that would have been another great al- alternate title for your, uh, for your book, there, a big a big, big pat on the back, I Cause my God, Try, I tried, You did a lot.

**[1:05:26] Michael Douglas:** I was gonna call it Before I Forget, but, uh, I thought about That's a great It, but but they Title. All said, What, what? But they said, Alzheimer's, what's his problem? They all Said, What are you Taking

**[1:05:37] Will Arnett:** What, what I I you

**[1:05:39] Michael Douglas:** Anyway?

**[1:05:39] Will Arnett:** You you mentioned that you had somebody go through all your diaries and stuff, but actually, I'm legit wanna know, did you have you been good about keeping a really good diary all these years of stuff that you've done?

**[1:05:48] Michael Douglas:** Oh, no, I I'm I I have no Diary at all. I mean, I I I just have my my secretaries, you know, my address, my address Where I w- I mean, I forget what year I made a movie, and then then slowly doing that, and then I was fortunate enough to work with enough actors, uh, who had better memories than I did.

**[1:06:05] Will Arnett:** Oh, great. So, you know,

**[1:06:07] Sean Hayes:** Yeah, for sure.

**[1:06:08] Jason Bateman:** Oh, great. Well, listen, um, I I'm gonna let you go, and, uh, I I cannot thank you enough for doing this and and talking with Us. And and, uh, I know once I read the book, I'm gonna thank you again for for putting it all down on paper. So, um, uh, huge, huge thanks to all you've done, um, including this, uh, this hour with us today, Yeah. Thanks, Sir. Michael. I Thank you, I'm glad you Sean.

**[1:06:29] Jason Bateman:** We

**[1:06:29] Sean Hayes:** Poured with the trail. All appreciate Yeah.

**[1:06:31] Michael Douglas:** It, guys. You do a wonderful job. So, uh, Yeah, thank Keep it a positive You.

**[1:06:34] Sean Hayes:** Thanks, Michael.

**[1:06:34] Michael Douglas:** Bowl. Okay, okay. Yeah.

**[1:06:36] Jason Bateman:** Who knew?

**[1:06:37] Will Arnett:** We'll see you there. Take care. Lots of What a thrill.

**[1:06:38] Michael Douglas:** Love. All right. Bye-bye.

**[1:06:39] Jason Bateman:** Thank you, sir.

**[1:06:40] Sean Hayes:** Thanks, Michael.

**[1:06:40] Jason Bateman:** Thanks, Mike. Bye-bye. Well, that was, um, I mean, we didn't but I mean We didn't we didn't even get to Fatal

**[1:06:48] Will Arnett:** How do you?

**[1:06:49] Jason Bateman:** Attraction. We we didn't we didn't get to basic instinct or the Game. I know. I mean, Ha! I know, You know, Like, I

**[1:06:53] Will Arnett:** I love her.

**[1:06:53] Sean Hayes:** Wanted to ask him about, I will Uh, Fatal Attraction.

**[1:06:55] Will Arnett:** Not be ignored, Dave.

**[1:06:58] Jason Bateman:** His relationship with Danny DeVito that I know the Still endures

**[1:07:00] Will Arnett:** I know Jason. Moment. Today, and, like, I know

**[1:07:02] Sean Hayes:** I know. Jason. I wanted to ask, but I didn't Let's bring it Know

**[1:07:04] Will Arnett:** Back. Let's do it 2 for This guy. I think Michael Douglas needs minimum 2 episodes.

**[1:07:10] Sean Hayes:** Yeah, for sure. It's really

**[1:07:11] Jason Bateman:** Stunning what what he's what he's Well, it's funny when Done.

**[1:07:13] Sean Hayes:** He when he was on Will Grace, and I was like, I wanna ask him about all that. And then now he's on today, I was like, I wanna ask him about all that. And I didn't do either.

**[1:07:19] Jason Bateman:** Can't do it. No, no, but Gotta read But but His book. I Yeah, I guess

**[1:07:22] Will Arnett:** You gotta read his book, which will, but it's just it it's it's stunning. And he was saying, you know, yeah, it it's hard to come out to step out from, uh, the the shadow of of somebody like Kirk Douglas. It's, you know, like, as you said, Spartacus, for Christ's sake, You just that Alone. And not he he not only did it, I Exceeded Mean, he did it, His father's W- I mean, he, Legacy. Yeah, he really did.

**[1:07:44] Will Arnett:** And and because he had so many roles that were so different, and and and was so long-lasting over so many decades and generations of people who appreciate him as a movie star, Um, it's it's it's remarkable, truly Yeah. I th- Remarkable.

**[1:07:59] Sean Hayes:** I always reference Fatal Attraction as the perfect movie scene to scene, like, just the way it's built is is incredible, and you know the the you

**[1:08:05] Will Arnett:** I agree.

**[1:08:05] Sean Hayes:** Know, that different ending, right?

**[1:08:07] Will Arnett:** Is that Adrian Lynn? Yeah, fatal Adrian Lyne?

**[1:08:08] Jason Bateman:** Adeline. Yeah. Attraction.

**[1:08:09] Will Arnett:** Lyne, Lyne?

**[1:08:10] Sean Hayes:** What's that?

**[1:08:10] Jason Bateman:** Yes, the director.

**[1:08:11] Will Arnett:** Adrian Lyne, Yeah, the director. Sorry, go ahead.

**[1:08:12] Sean Hayes:** Yeah, he's amazing. But the you know, she wasn't shot in the fucking head at the end originally, she She killed herself. She sliced her own neck.

**[1:08:20] Jason Bateman:** Really?

**[1:08:20] Sean Hayes:** Yeah, and that you could see it They shoot it, Online. Yeah,

**[1:08:22] Will Arnett:** They shot it.

**[1:08:23] Sean Hayes:** You could watch it. Yeah, it's it's wild. A and like the whole So they tested End,

**[1:08:27] Jason Bateman:** That, and it didn't, eh

**[1:08:28] Sean Hayes:** That's exactly right. And the audience is like, Well, that's not very satisfying. I wanna see her get sh- killed by, you know, Someone else. And so, um, yeah, i it was wild. It's wild to see it, cause she and then she frames him because his fingerprints are on the knife that she kills herself with, and then the cops show Up. Yeah. Oh, and

**[1:08:45] Will Arnett:** And you know, the other thing is she had a really solid alibi. Smart, Less Smart, Less Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbacoa, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob ArmJARF.

**[1:09:17] Speaker 7:** Smart, Less.

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