# Ray Winstone

- **Show:** SmartLess
- **Published:** 26 Oct 2026
- **Source:** https://www.smartless.com/
- **Transcript:** https://podcasts.opennash.com/shows/smartless/ray-winstone-bb2f2f/
- **Provider:** OpenNash Podcasts (machine-generated)

## In brief

Ray Winstone, the British actor best known as a screen tough guy, argues that his authenticity comes from a working-class upbringing rather than formal training. Boxing taught him to read danger and avoid fights, and a bad school grade pushed him to break acting rules instead of follow them. He still treats the work as secondary to life.

The conversation moves between humor and craft: flight chaos, shingles, quitting drinking and a turkey-sandwich arrest story sit beside serious talk of Sexy Beast, Scorsese and Guy Ritchie. The tension is between Winstone's rough, self-mocking image and a thoughtful artist who values tone and reality, and who admits his work suffered when he stopped caring.

## Key insights

1. **Boxing taught Winstone to avoid fights** Winstone says growing up near the London docks meant boxing was the local sport, and that it gave him an instinct for where trouble would start. He says that skill, plus the mixed-background boxing club, shaped how he behaves.
2. **A zero in a drama exam fueled him** Winstone says he scored zero, with not even a mark for imagination, on a Shakespeare-style TV scene. He chose to push back rather than quit, adopting the view that if you don't know the rules, you break them and might invent something original.
3. **Sexy Beast is a love story, not gangster film** Winstone argues the film is about Gary's love for his wife, which gets in the way of his instinct to do the robbery. Will Arnett adds that the film is so well-controlled in tone that it could be a film-school course.
4. **Winstone played against Kingsley's rhythm on purpose** He says Ben Kingsley's Don spoke in a fast, driving pace, so Winstone deliberately talked off the beat to keep his character's rhythm separate. He says this made the scenes feel like a nightmare intruding on a real life.
5. **Work took second place until quality slipped** Winstone says he enjoyed the party side of the business so much that his performances suffered, and he fell out of love with acting. He says a quick, happy little British film reminded him why working with people you like matters.

## Questions this episode answers

### Who is Ray Winstone and why is he on SmartLess?

Ray Winstone is a British actor known for tough-guy roles such as Gary 'Gal' Dove in Sexy Beast. The hosts say he is also in The Gentlemen's second season on Netflix, which is what he is promoting.

### Did Ray Winstone really box before he became an actor?

Yes. Will Arnett says he won about eighty of eighty-eight boxing matches as a kid and was a London schoolboy welterweight champion, and Winstone says boxing was his local sport near the docks.

### Why does Winstone say Sexy Beast is not a gangster movie?

He says it is a love story, because the main character Gary is torn between his love for his wife and the pull of one more robbery. He thinks Gary's excuse of protecting her is not the whole truth.

### What happened with Winstone and Martin Scorsese?

Winstone says he turned down a police role and asked to play a gangster called Mister French, who barely speaks. He says Scorsese later sent him home when his British humor did not land, which he jokes about.

### What project is Winstone working on now?

He says he is in Malta filming a show called Danger Money for Amazon about an old ex-SAS man who thinks he can still do action-hero stunts but whose body hurts. He also notes The Gentlemen season two is out now.

## Facts

- **Speaker 3** [0:08:57]: "He was a London schoolboy champion, uh, welterweight on three occasions."
- **Ray Winstone** [0:09:57]: "I've flown back from London to Malta. I'm working in Malta, really."
- **Speaker 4** [0:11:20]: "it's a really cool place, and it's got major World War II significance."
- **Speaker 3** [0:14:57]: "the Gordie Howe hat trick means in a game you get an assist, a goal and a fight, right?"
- **Speaker 3** [0:14:57]: "And so he holds the record for the most Gordie Howe hat tricks."
- **Ray Winstone** [0:19:24]: "we're doing a a a show called Um, Danger Money for Amazon."
- **Ray Winstone** [0:20:10]: "what happened with me was I stopped drinking about two and a half years ago."
- **Ray Winstone** [0:21:56]: "Well, since November, it kinda settled down in February when I started working"
- **Ray Winstone** [0:27:45]: "I went into a school play when I was about, I guess I was about fourteen years of age."
- **Ray Winstone** [0:28:31]: "it was 900 quid a term, and in those days, it was back in the seventies"
- **Ray Winstone** [0:34:18]: "he was one of the Hatton Garden old men who done the robbery."
- **Sean Hayes** [0:35:45]: "I was in college, I got arrested for stealing a turkey sandwich."
- **Ray Winstone** [0:42:23]: "I done a film called Scum, and I wasn't an actor at the time"
- **Ray Winstone** [0:46:05]: "Gangster number one had a falling out with the producers and all that, so we couldn't do that."
- **Ray Winstone** [0:47:24]: "But then he doesn't turn up because he's locked in on this other film. So we're in Spain shooting around him"
- **Speaker 3** [0:50:56]: "before Sexy Beast, which was, I think, in 2,000."
- **Speaker 5** [0:56:28]: "They got relegated this year to the second division, which is oddly enough called the Championship."
- **Ray Winstone** [0:57:01]: "There's a lot in common with West Ham and Liverpool because they're both dock teams, you know"
- **Ray Winstone** [1:00:04]: "I said, Can I play Mister French? And he said, But Mister French don't say anything."

## Transcript

**[0:00:00] Sean Hayes:** This episode of Smartless is sponsored by Google Book. So this may not surprise you. I have a lot of thoughts in my head, and my dream is to just blurt them out and somehow get them down on paper. Because my brain works way faster than my hands. That's where Google Book comes in. It's a whole new kind of laptop. No more typing, you just talk, and the Rambler feature cleans up your ums and uhs and all the times you change your mind.

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**[0:02:27] Sean Hayes:** Potential savings vary. Subject to terms and qualifications. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. Um, hey guys, it's really good to see you today.

**[0:02:42] Speaker 6:** It's so great to see you, Sean. Thanks you too, Oh, thank God

**[0:02:45] Speaker 3:** Sean. Whatnot.

**[0:02:45] Speaker 6:** you made it.

**[0:02:46] Sean Hayes:** Thank you. I slept really well and I feel really good

**[0:02:48] Speaker 6:** Didn't they ask?

**[0:02:49] Sean Hayes:** today. Hopefully it looks like it.

**[0:02:50] Speaker 6:** Do you remember your dreams?

**[0:02:52] Sean Hayes:** I do. I remember my dreams. I remember

**[0:02:54] Speaker 6:** What did you dream about last night?

**[0:02:56] Sean Hayes:** I remember Amanda driving on my front lawn and and driving over all the um flowers and the things. All the wait, Yeah, swear to God, there was. There was swear to God.

**[0:03:05] Speaker 6:** some really impressive decor in front of your house currently that I saw a picture of. right. And she drove Um,

**[0:03:12] Sean Hayes:** through the entire thing and said she was having a really bad day. She could. Can I come in and talk? And I'm like, Sure, swear to God, that was my dream last night.

**[0:03:18] Speaker 6:** really, what kind of car was she? was she driving?

**[0:03:20] Sean Hayes:** like a real, like a, like a, like a small tortoise. What is it? No, like a

**[0:03:24] Speaker 6:** Well, that's shitty. well, F you, bro.

**[0:03:28] Sean Hayes:** well, well, anyway, welcome to Smartless.

**[0:03:30] Speaker 8:** Smart, wise, smart, wise, smart, wise.

**[0:03:48] Speaker 6:** Willie, where are you?

**[0:03:50] Speaker 3:** I'm in Napa. You're in Napa, What are Uh-huh.

**[0:03:52] Speaker 6:** you doing in Napa? You drinking wine?

**[0:03:55] Speaker 3:** No, I'm here for a, uh, I'm here for a wedding. Oh, really. Oh, wait, you're talking about

**[0:04:00] Speaker 6:** do you have an announcement to make? Oh my gosh, Congratulations.

**[0:04:02] Speaker 3:** No, no, no, I don't. no, I don't. no, again, I So are you don't. in the anybody we know,

**[0:04:06] Speaker 6:** are you in the wedding? Do you have to make a speech?

**[0:04:09] Speaker 3:** No, I don't have to make speech. No, no, no, I'm just here. I'm just a guest. I'm a plus one. all right. Yeah, so, Are you? are but it's,

**[0:04:15] Speaker 6:** you? Are you a fan of weddings? not really, you know,

**[0:04:21] Speaker 3:** for the most part. Uh, are you?

**[0:04:23] Speaker 6:** Yeah, I'm not.

**[0:04:24] Sean Hayes:** cause why? cause you have to dance.

**[0:04:25] Speaker 3:** Well, here, here's, here's my thing. Here's the thing about weddings. They're fine, but especially if it's a weekend in the summer. If you invite me, it means that you don't like me. That's the way I look at it, because you want me to take a weekend. SP. And if it's a destination wedding, that's an insult.

**[0:04:42] Speaker 4:** well, did you have to go to this one?

**[0:04:44] Speaker 3:** I did. Yeah, this isn't necessary. So I'm happy to be here and I'm happy for these people. I, I do like these people, so I'm happy for them.

**[0:04:51] Speaker 4:** Yeah, but you are aware, though, that they don't like you.

**[0:04:54] Speaker 3:** I I can feel the vibe is not great towards me.

**[0:04:58] Speaker 4:** Shani, when was the last wedding you went to? Remember when we were that age, when it was, it was, it was wedding age, and it was like it was a few a year.

**[0:05:06] Sean Hayes:** Yeah, yeah, we I. I went this summer, I went to my niece's. Remember, it was really hot in Iowa, or no, was it Iowa? Hm, yeah, it was Iowa. It was really, really hot. But um, yeah, I we, we. I can't do it. I can't do the heat anymore. It's just I can't do oh, it's it anything.

**[0:05:20] Speaker 3:** the heat, so but. But if anybody asks you to a cold destination wedding, you're in.

**[0:05:24] Sean Hayes:** I'll do, I'll go, yeah, I'll go.

**[0:05:26] Speaker 4:** And and and Sean, are you a dancer?

**[0:05:28] Sean Hayes:** Well, not anymore. But I mean, you know, look at this body. Yeah,

**[0:05:32] Speaker 4:** you do you, but but you'll, you'll, you'll get on the on the dance floor He can at a party, dance.

**[0:05:37] Sean Hayes:** I I, um, not really anymore, but but but maybe

**[0:05:41] Speaker 3:** No, Sean, you're being. He's being modest. if I He's a very put a gummy, if good dancer.

**[0:05:43] Sean Hayes:** I eat a gummy, yeah, really. And yeah, yeah,

**[0:05:45] Speaker 4:** what about you, Will? Uh, will you get on a dance floor at a party? Yeah, sure, man, go Really?

**[0:05:50] Speaker 3:** ahead. Yeah, of course.

**[0:05:51] Sean Hayes:** yeah, it'll count as your cardio.

**[0:05:53] Speaker 3:** well, it's not just that, it's just like that's part of the thing. It's fun to to dance and be, you know, to Yeah, I know, enjoy yourself. And man, I I think that if you don't dance, and I'm this is pointed directly at you, JB, if you're if you're too self conscious, it's not about you, man, it's and nobody and nobody's paying attention. It's fun, let yourself I've got deep go. It's one of the joys scars.

**[0:06:11] Speaker 3:** of life.

**[0:06:12] Speaker 4:** Yeah, I got deep scars,

**[0:06:12] Speaker 3:** You're gonna be, you're gonna

**[0:06:13] Speaker 4:** deep scars.

**[0:06:14] Speaker 3:** be on your deathbed, and you're gonna have your list of regrets, by the way, your list of regrets is long.

**[0:06:19] Speaker 4:** But I'll tell you what won't be. I won't be regretful that I'll that I'm holding a lot of water weight, you know, I'll be I'll have wooden teeth and a nice bone structure.

**[0:06:30] Speaker 3:** Every time, every time I see JB. And I were walking to Josh's fiftieth birthday the other day, we were walking through the parking lot. We see this old guy come out, he's hunched over and blah blah blah, and I go, and literally we're like within a foot of him, and I go, that's you,

**[0:06:41] Sean Hayes:** that's you now. Um, you know, I said in the gym yesterday or the day before, Do you guys?

**[0:06:49] Speaker 3:** what is this place? No,

**[0:06:52] Sean Hayes:** No, I said, cause I stopped working out like I have a little trainer guy that helps me, and I stopped working out. Like after like thirty five minutes or forty minutes, right?

**[0:07:03] Speaker 4:** You had enough after a half hour.

**[0:07:04] Sean Hayes:** Yeah, and that's been my thing recently. Like, I don't need to do like a whole hour of working out, you know what I mean? Like thir. It's almost like, remember when people used to say, you gotta finish your plate? remember we grew up like, you gotta finish your plate? And of course. Yeah, now it's like, you, you feel like that, but it's like, no, that that actually is the thing that makes you fat, right? Well, working out, I don't think you need to work out an hour anymore, you know?

**[0:07:25] Sean Hayes:** It's like you work out until you're done working out, like a half okay, well, hour, thirty let's, I mean, five minutes. sh, I mean, w Cause I've done are you trying to it.

**[0:07:33] Speaker 3:** get results, or are you just trying to get out of there? Like, I mean, Yeah, I don't know, Uh, is uh, is like,

**[0:07:36] Speaker 4:** it? Is it? Because you, uh, you're annoyed that you're starting to sweat, and you're you're afraid that you, the your clothes might get sweaty? And it's like, might Ooh, ooh, ooh, I'm getting hot, let's get out of here. That's a that might be problem. it, that might be I already got after

**[0:07:50] Speaker 3:** it this morning, I already, I already hit those kettlebells this morning, man.

**[0:07:53] Speaker 4:** Oh, did you? What was today? was you were just blasting, uh, uh, quads and

**[0:07:57] Speaker 3:** but just everything.

**[0:07:58] Speaker 4:** and tries.

**[0:07:58] Speaker 3:** Just a full body engage the core, JB, you gotta engage the core. You follow, you follow my workout account on Instagram. Imagine if I started to work out, fuck me, man, I tell you, it's a good workout.

**[0:08:18] Speaker 6:** oh, here it comes.

**[0:08:18] Speaker 3:** I wish, I wish I coulda worked out to be as tough as this guy. I really, I really, really do, cause this guy. And I wanna be careful, cause I think, like physically, he could end me. Through John a podcast Cena microphone. He's pound for pound the most, I think,

**[0:08:35] Sean Hayes:** good guess.

**[0:08:35] Speaker 3:** terrifying and terrifyingly talented men in all of cinema, British cinema,

**[0:08:41] Speaker 4:** I need to, though, Tora,

**[0:08:42] Speaker 3:** whatever. He plays the gangster so convincingly that I like, and layeredly, that I legit think that he is one. And I've convinced myself, even though I know he's just an incredibly talented actor. He was, can I just say this?

**[0:08:57] Speaker 4:** he was British.

**[0:08:57] Speaker 3:** Put it this way when he was growing up, he was pound for pound. He, I don't know he. He won like eighty out of eighty eight, uh, boxing, uh matches when he was a kid. Uh, he was a London schoolboy champion, uh, welterweight on three occasions. He's been an actor for over fifty years in the most, uh, amazing films that we love. He's worked with Martin Scorsese multiple times. He's worked with, like the guy JB that we were just talking about and going over the other day.

**[0:09:26] Speaker 3:** We love so much with, uh, uh, Jonathan Glazer. Uh. Most notably, in the most incredible performance for me in Sexy Beast, he's reprising his role in The Gentleman that's out now on Netflix. You guys,

**[0:09:37] Speaker 4:** Who's that?

**[0:09:37] Speaker 3:** it's none other than Ray Winstone,

**[0:09:39] Speaker 4:** Jesus? Ray Winstone? Oh my goodness, get out here.

**[0:09:44] Ray Winstone:** Is the reveal? There is

**[0:09:45] Sean Hayes:** look at him.

**[0:09:47] Speaker 4:** he's got the sunglasses on Oh my the beach. god, look at

**[0:09:49] Ray Winstone:** Hey, how you doing, guys?

**[0:09:52] Speaker 4:** Good morning.

**[0:09:52] Sean Hayes:** good. How are you? Well, well, Mr. Winstone. hello, sir,

**[0:09:57] Ray Winstone:** Yeah, I was telling you, I was telling your technicians, um, you know, flying. I've just I've flown back from London to Malta. I'm working in Malta, really. and every time I seem to get on an aeroplane, I mean, I love driving, you know, if I have to go somewhere, I usually drive if I can, you know. But and you can take what you like, you can, you know, you can have your own bags, you can have this.

**[0:10:19] Ray Winstone:** you don't even You're not told

**[0:10:20] Speaker 4:** have to zip em closed.

**[0:10:21] Ray Winstone:** Well, you go through an airport, yeah, you're told you can't take that. You know, you've got too many fluids, you got this, you got that. They, you know, it's like a fucking punishment getting on an airplane,

**[0:10:30] Speaker 4:** the worst.

**[0:10:30] Ray Winstone:** you know? And then at the end of it, when you get off the other end, they give you the flu, I always get the fucking flu, you know, and it's

**[0:10:40] Sean Hayes:** do you have the flu

**[0:10:40] Ray Winstone:** it's nothing. right now? No, Yeah, I mean, I, I got it. I last night we got in and I was feeling a little bit rough after they opened the door. You know, all the smell goes out the plane and everyone's fighting for position. And uh, I just come over, you know, you just come over and it just makes you never wanna fly again, you know? I, I, I totally

**[0:11:03] Speaker 4:** hear you. I totally agree. I love driving. ugh, driving is the

**[0:11:07] Sean Hayes:** yeah, I do too. best.

**[0:11:08] Speaker 3:** Can can I just say, JB, what a what a what a coincidence, Ray, that you're in Malta because JB, uh, uh, has some roots My grandmother, J adjacent. grandmother's from Malta, and Oh, really, I didn't, yeah, I was I didn't even there, I was,

**[0:11:20] Sean Hayes:** know that.

**[0:11:20] Speaker 4:** yeah, I, I, I went there when I was a little kid. It's, it's, it's really, it's a really cool place, and it's got major World War II significance. Yeah, Willie, Yo, yeah, Yeah, uh, that that was

**[0:11:31] Ray Winstone:** it's got the, uh, I think it's the, uh, Victoria Cross, wasn't it? For bravery? The island, cause of the where it's placed in the Med, it's a very important part of second, the Second World War, not only the Second World War, but the Crusades. And everything goes back to history, goes back a hell of a long My grandfather way.

**[0:11:48] Speaker 4:** was in the British Uh Air Force, and he met my grandmother there. She was a a local, uh, a local there, and um, and and then, uh, and then got married. And then she got on a boat with she pregnant on a boat, uh, back to England with my mother,

**[0:12:05] Sean Hayes:** And then she got the flu.

**[0:12:07] Speaker 4:** and then got the flu. And then she got the flu.

**[0:12:09] Ray Winstone:** I got the flu.

**[0:12:11] Speaker 3:** Jason Jason always said, Look at his fingers, they're they're great for put, uh, for pulling up nets, multi fisherman multi, friends, they they

**[0:12:17] Ray Winstone:** It's multi fingers. multi.

**[0:12:18] Speaker 4:** yeah, you gotta have a little bit of fat on the finger so they don't get cut in the nets. You know,

**[0:12:21] Sean Hayes:** yeah, yeah, yeah, Ray. Have you ever speaking of the air? I know what you mean about air flying, flying in a plane. Have you ever witnessed? Like it does seem like it's getting worse and worse. Have you ever s been on a flight where it's just like p chaos and people fight? I see those videos all the time, and that's my biggest no, it's fear.

**[0:12:38] Ray Winstone:** on that Instagram, yeah, you get them on there, but you know, I was involved on one oh, bet, come on, coming out come on, the new no, no, the gospel truth, this is gospel truth. And I was coming out to see a film called Nil by Mouth that we made back in the day. Gary Oldman G. Gary Oldman directed it, you know,

**[0:12:54] Sean Hayes:** I love him.

**[0:12:55] Ray Winstone:** and we was on a, uh, an Air India flight. Okay, because it was the last flights you could get and you could actually have a cigarette on, you know? And um, we was sitting there and this, and and an Irish kid joined us. He said, Could I come and sit down with you there and have a drink? I said, Yeah, we got a spare seat, come and sit down. And there was a couple of kids opposite him sitting there.

**[0:13:17] Ray Winstone:** And uh, during the flight, the Irishman got very, very drunk, bless him, you know? And uh, shocker. and I went to the toilet. And when I was on me way back, he was fighting the other two kids across from us. He lost the plot, way, yeah, he completely lost the plot, and so I I've. I've got hold of him, and my other mates grabbed hold of the other two, and we piled him and we got him down.

**[0:13:40] Ray Winstone:** And said, Now, behave yourself, calm down anyway. They took him away on the plane and put him in a jacket up the front. no way. That's Yeah, and we crazy. That's were all treated like amazing, heroes, cause we'd saved the flight and they were giving us free drinks And they didn't and everything.

**[0:13:53] Sean Hayes:** do an emergency l landing or anything.

**[0:13:55] Ray Winstone:** no, we landed in New York and we, and when we got off in New York, I got arrested. did you? No, Once. I got taken to the naughty boys room, yeah, and all that, you know, and I was actually put on the flight back to London. No way, Yeah, yeah,

**[0:14:10] Sean Hayes:** no way. now when, when, when's

**[0:14:11] Ray Winstone:** it's crazy.

**[0:14:12] Speaker 4:** when's the last time you got in a fist fight? Ray?

**[0:14:14] Ray Winstone:** Oh, it's quite a few years ago now. Yeah, I did say to a kid on a on a on a train once he was misbehaving, he was. He was on one of our train systems out from Hartfordshire. And I said, Listen, kid, I haven't had a fight for ten years. I said, but for you, I will make a comeback.

**[0:14:35] Speaker 4:** that was scared the shit out of me. Jeez, Man, man, as you're taking your jacket off,

**[0:14:40] Ray Winstone:** wait, you, you don't get time to take your jacket off. You just go go. But I'm too old. I mean, I don't wanna be rolling about in the mud, the blood and the beer anymore, you know? So

**[0:14:48] Speaker 3:** no, no, you know, Ray, I was gonna say that, you know, we have a friend of ours who's who's been on the podcast, an old friend of mine. He's a retired professional ice hockey oh, Christ, player, great guy,

**[0:14:56] Ray Winstone:** that's right. Brendan Brendan Yeah,

**[0:14:57] Speaker 3:** Shanahan, tough, tough guy. He holds the record for what they a s a stat they called the Gordie Howe hat trick. Gordie Howe is a legendary hockey player, and the Gordie Howe hat trick means in a game you get an assist, a goal and a fight, right? And so he holds the record for the most Gordie Howe hat tricks. Brendan Shane

**[0:15:16] Ray Winstone:** my god, they're t. They're tough guys, they are

**[0:15:18] Speaker 3:** Tough guys.

**[0:15:19] Ray Winstone:** tough guys, aren't they? Yeah,

**[0:15:20] Speaker 3:** So he, he, he retired, he retired years ago, he's our age, he retired years ago, and we're good friends. And he called about a few months after he retired, he called me one day. S, you know, it's kind of a Wednesday afternoon. He seemed kind of down and out. And I said, Uh, I said, What's going on, Shannon? are you okay? And he goes, Nah, I don't know, he said. I just. It just occurred to me that I'm probably never gonna fight again.

**[0:15:43] Speaker 3:** And and I said, Listen, you're forty two, you shouldn't be fighting anybody.

**[0:15:45] Sean Hayes:** that's crazy.

**[0:15:48] Ray Winstone:** it's very true, you know?

**[0:15:50] Sean Hayes:** I've always wished to have be in a fight, like I've never been in a fight, but like in my brain, I'd be really good. But then I don't know, like if it would actually happen, I don't know what I would do. But you know how you like, you're like, if I got robbed or something, I know exactly what to do. Cause I've seen so so many movies, but I, I, I don't know.

**[0:16:06] Speaker 4:** yeah, it, it. It ends up on the ground pretty quick, doesn't it, Ray?

**[0:16:10] Ray Winstone:** Yeah, it's it's first one in, it's you know, and and if you you are the first one in and you get it wrong, you are in trouble. You know? Yeah, and shole, shole, let me tell you, you know, it may be in your head, but you really don't wanna do it. K you know, just leave it alone. probably not It's not nice. now. Yeah, It's not I, I did hear nice.

**[0:16:29] Speaker 4:** that the the the key, yeah, the key is to hit first and just don't stop, right?

**[0:16:33] Ray Winstone:** Yeah, then run, yeah, run, they'll run, you know,

**[0:16:37] Speaker 3:** most most guys I know who are good fighters, or tough guys, don't wanna get into a fight. Like they, they do everything they can to avoid it. They sort of that's the guy you're worried, the guy who's kinda like, Yeah, let's go, let's go. And that no, it's the guy who says, Nah, let's not, nah, let's not. That's the guy I'm worried about. very true. Will, Yeah, Yeah,

**[0:16:58] Speaker 4:** I wouldn't be good. Uh, all right, so you're in Malta, you're about to start work. Um, how do? How do you like working away from home? Do you do you like this? Uh, this travel?

**[0:17:08] Ray Winstone:** my wife loves it, you know, because she gets rid of me for a couple of months. But, uh,

**[0:17:13] Speaker 4:** she doesn't come with you. Like Malta seems like a yeah, she's good spot.

**[0:17:16] Ray Winstone:** here now, to be fair. The first four weeks we I was here on me own, you know, and, uh, you know, we got a ninety four year old mum, you know, at home, so she needs looking after and she can't travel. So there's all that kind of stuff to go through. But thank God, we've got a big enough family, we can kinda get on with that, you know? But I've always traveled with the family, you know, when the kids were younger.

**[0:17:36] Ray Winstone:** If I was working in the states, uh, or I was working in Europe, you take the kids with you. And it's the greatest education in the world with them, you know, and they meet people from all over the world. yeah, of course, yeah, it's really yeah, do

**[0:17:48] Speaker 3:** you do you? Um, you've got, uh, how many kids do you got? You've? You've got a few daughters, is that right, Ray?

**[0:17:54] Ray Winstone:** I got three daughters, yeah, I got grandsons as well, so you know, it's kind of balanced itself out. I mean, I don't know about you guys. If you've got kids, he's got he's got daughters,

**[0:18:03] Speaker 3:** I've got three, I've got and three, I've got three boys. Uh, Jason's got two girls.

**[0:18:07] Speaker 4:** yeah, I can't. I'm looking forward to being a grandfather, cause I I, I was sort of I. I'm looking forward to the the that infant stage again. Um, cause, uh, the first time around, I was just like, Ah, well, uh, you know, it's great

**[0:18:18] Speaker 3:** You're just trying to get through everything. it.

**[0:18:20] Speaker 4:** Yeah, but the it it. Now, in retrospect, I know how great it was. Once they started walking and talking, um, was really kinda cool, like after like twelve months, but now I'm like, no, I bet you there's some. There's something more in those twelve months that I I need another, another crack at. So I, I, I can't you know what, wait.

**[0:18:37] Ray Winstone:** Jase, though, you know? The thing is when we were, when we had our kids, we were working, and so is w,

**[0:18:44] Speaker 4:** it's true.

**[0:18:44] Ray Winstone:** you know, we missed a lot of that, we missed a lot of them kids,

**[0:18:47] Speaker 4:** you're right.

**[0:18:48] Ray Winstone:** that them times, you know. And the thing about having a grandson, we can kinda sit back a little bit now, you know, we've done, we've done what we've had to do, you know, and you've got time now with them. So it's kind of saying sorry, you know, in a way, but now I've got him. And when he gets on your nerves, or she gets on your nerves, you can And give give him back. back. Yeah,

**[0:19:08] Sean Hayes:** yeah, it's so nice. Yeah, my dad how do you? uh, had that. go ahead, Sean? You I'm gonna go ahead, say my dad had that philosophy when I was five.

**[0:19:15] Speaker 4:** just give him back. Yeah, yeah,

**[0:19:16] Speaker 3:** oh, you're a dad.

**[0:19:19] Speaker 4:** um, what are you doing there in in Malta? You said you spent, you've already s done four weeks on it. Uh, it's, uh,

**[0:19:24] Ray Winstone:** Yeah, we're doing a a a show called Um, Danger Money for Amazon. oh, great, Yeah, it's about an old SAS guy, you know, you know, all these films where you got men my age jumping out of bushes and karate chopping people, and, you know, shooting everyone. And I die. I mean, they're fabulous to watch. I love em, but we're kind of taking it the other way a bit. I mean, he's an old boy who thinks, like Sean was saying in his head, he can still do it, you know?

**[0:19:53] Ray Winstone:** And um, and he can, to a certain degree, but it hurts. You know, we suffer with rheumatism, you know, and we, you know, and that's we get shingles and things like that. Shit like I've just got over shingles, you know, Oh my god, it's horrible. really.

**[0:20:08] Sean Hayes:** You didn't get the vaccine,

**[0:20:08] Ray Winstone:** Oh God, that's tough.

**[0:20:09] Sean Hayes:** you didn't get the vaccine.

**[0:20:10] Ray Winstone:** No, no, I was. I was due to have it, but what happened with me was I stopped drinking about two and a half years ago. And one day I just went, You know what, I'm really fed up with this. I'm not enjoying it anymore. I'll keep. I'm telling the same stories and talking absolute bollocks. I need just to have a little break from this, so I stopped drinking and I started training,

**[0:20:31] Speaker 4:** good for you.

**[0:20:32] Ray Winstone:** doing a bit of your stuff. Will getting myself fit on, not running, but on the walking machine, you know, yeah, and I got myself. I lost two and a half stone. I felt fighting fit again for for a couple of right handers, and then I got fucking shingles. Oh God, Yeah, so

**[0:20:49] Sean Hayes:** the worst.

**[0:20:50] Ray Winstone:** by stopping drinking, looking after myself, stopped smoking, all the shit got rid of out of my life and then I fell ill with shingles. Well, if you've ever had it, it's

**[0:21:00] Speaker 4:** I need some. the worst, I've got Yeah,

**[0:21:02] Ray Winstone:** the worst.

**[0:21:02] Speaker 4:** now, why? what? what is it? what? what is? what's this? what's the symptoms

**[0:21:05] Sean Hayes:** like, painful, right?

**[0:21:06] Speaker 4:** of shingles? Is it? It's a. It's a well, you feel like rash.

**[0:21:08] Ray Winstone:** you've got a red hot poker being stuck through your back, right? N Yeah, and you get lesions come up. And my Mo, my mother-in-law, mum, ninety-four, said to me, Raymond, I had it once around the midriff. And she said, Is it going all the way round your body? And I said, No, mum, it's, it's not, it's only halfway, you know, across the back. She said, It's good. I said, Why? What? What? But what happens when it goes round all the way around?

**[0:21:37] Ray Winstone:** She said, You die. Oh jeez,

**[0:21:38] Speaker 6:** oh jeez.

**[0:21:40] Sean Hayes:** thank you, jeez. Yes, yes, that's Oh

**[0:21:42] Ray Winstone:** very funny. my god. What's Yes, it's brutal, the Christmas? Yeah, absolutely brutal.

**[0:21:47] Speaker 4:** What's the treatment for it? Do they Well, do they have?

**[0:21:48] Ray Winstone:** you get some cream, you get cream for the lesions and all that sort of stuff, but it don't go away,

**[0:21:55] Speaker 4:** And how long did you have it?

**[0:21:56] Ray Winstone:** it still creeps back on you. Well, since November, it kinda settled down in February when I started working, because you had other things to think about. And when I finished work, it came on again, started another job, it went away,

**[0:22:10] Sean Hayes:** oh, jeez.

**[0:22:12] Ray Winstone:** and now I'm s. I was just fed a bit in me back. Yeah, so Like, it's been quite a while.

**[0:22:18] Speaker 4:** Yeah, maybe start drinking a little bit more to get yeah, maybe you get need to pick up the Dutch Well, I'm, a few things. saying

**[0:22:23] Ray Winstone:** I'm, I'm going out tonight for, I'm going out tonight for a meal and I'm gonna do a bottle of red wine. I know there you go, that

**[0:22:28] Sean Hayes:** There you go. like, Sean, Shaw,

**[0:22:30] Speaker 3:** Yeah, fuck it, why not, you know? I mean, God, the cigs are tough to give up, aren't they, man? I've just that's been,

**[0:22:36] Ray Winstone:** Yeah, do you know, do you know what I've done, though? I've I've got rid of the cigarettes. That was all right because all I do with that is I've got something to do with me hands, you know, I, I'm not stealing anything, or I've got a cigarette in me hand, so that's fine. But then I started smoking little cigars, and the trouble with little cigars is you forget you're smoking a cigar and not a cigarette. And you inhale you take it down them.

**[0:22:56] Ray Winstone:** like a fucking cigarette, And you're you know?

**[0:23:00] Sean Hayes:** cigars, man.

**[0:23:01] Speaker 4:** we'll be right back.

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**[0:25:56] Speaker 3:** Ray, I wanted to get back into I. We. We talked about in all this sort of fighting and boxing and stuff, but you did legit, you started, you were boxing before you were acting. And I'm interested how how you made that that. Well, first of all, how the I think your dad boxes a little bit, too. Is that is that right?

**[0:26:15] Ray Winstone:** yeah, listen, where where we came from, I'm sure it's the same in New York, you know, round the Bronx and all that. S as it is in Liverpool and Manchester and Coventry, you know, in in England, and, uh, kids from a certain manner, you know, I lived near the docks, so you kinda your sport was boxing, you know where? If you went to North London, it's probably more football, you know, and other sports, but so we boxed.

**[0:26:39] Ray Winstone:** And I guess it was a way it goes back generational, because you gotta learn to survive and you you learn how to fight. Or what boxing actually teaches you is how to avoid it. Actually, uh, because you you get an instinct for it, you get an instinct for where trouble's gonna be. And and and you know how to conduct yourself, you know how to maneuver yourself away from those situations, you know. So really, it was a it was a great education in that way.

**[0:27:06] Ray Winstone:** Not only that, a boxing club, the great thing about boxing clubs is you get kids from all walks of life, you know, different different religions, d different color, you know, different beliefs. But at a boxing club, it's all forgotten about, it's just pushed away. And it ca you kinda get the feeling if the world was run like that, we wouldn't have any problems, you know, you know, we wouldn't have any problems with boxing clubs, you know.

**[0:27:32] Speaker 3:** and what? W So so then, so you're doing that, and then what? What's the thing that you go? What was the first? What? What gave you that first sort of inclination to start, uh, performing, acting like, what, what? Was there one particular Well, I kinda thing?

**[0:27:45] Ray Winstone:** done, I done. A school, I went into a school play when I was about, I guess I was about fourteen years of age. There was a there was a girl in the play that I I kinda fancied, you know, she, it's quite lovely, you know? And you know, it's always the way, innit, boys, it's facing you go into a certain thing because you see someone and you think, Oh, you know, I never thought about it before.

**[0:28:07] Ray Winstone:** I loved going to the cinema, loved watching films, you know, I used to go with my dad every Wednesday. He'd come home from the market and he'd pick me up. And, you know, in the afternoon, we'd go and watch a film. And we always, you know, so, and I done. This play called Emmylou The Detectives, and I played the paperboy. You know, you know, read all about it, you know? And I got a few laughs, you know, say, you know.

**[0:28:31] Ray Winstone:** And um, I think my mum and dad saw that. Uh, cause I was a bit of a kid on the streets, you know, and they thought this, you know, he's got something, yeah, this kid, you know. And they put me and paid for. When, you know, money was, it was 900 quid a term, and in those days, it was back in the seventies, it was a lot of money. Three terms a year and my mum and dad were only working people, you know?

**[0:28:55] Ray Winstone:** And, uh, I think it was a way of keeping me off the streets. Although I had the boxing club, which kinda done that, but but to give me some some another outlook on life in a way. Cause, again, it was a place you met kids from all over the world, and, you know, it was a great education in that way, you know,

**[0:29:12] Speaker 4:** Did you have brothers or sisters that were, uh, uh, that were running around, um, uh, doing something similar?

**[0:29:19] Ray Winstone:** my my, my sister Laura, she's my younger sister, she's probably more talented than I am. I would s, I would say so, but she never went into that. She's a mum, you know, she's got three, she's got the three boys, and, uh, we're still, we're still very close. She lives down the road from me in London, you know, in Essex, and, uh, so yeah,

**[0:29:39] Sean Hayes:** And and when you would go with your dad to the cinema as a kid, do you do you remember? Like, was there a film that you were like, Oh my god, this yeah, what were changed my life?

**[0:29:45] Speaker 4:** some of the early things? Like,

**[0:29:45] Ray Winstone:** listen, uh, we used to, we used to go and watch six, three, three Squadron Beckett, you know, it was Pete Rowtule, uh, Torn, and and, uh, Richard Burton. That was the films at the time, and you had the kitchen sink dramas coming through in the sixties, you know? Yeah, I look back at anger and, uh, Saturday night, Sunday morning. They were. They were really stories about people from where we came from. All of a sudden, we weren't just watching American movies, we or movies about the, um, aristocracy.

**[0:30:15] Ray Winstone:** We were actually watching films about where we came from. You know, this is great film, Saturday night, Sunday morning, black and white movie. Albert Finney and Rachel Roberts.

**[0:30:25] Speaker 4:** love Albert Finney.

**[0:30:26] Ray Winstone:** And, you know, it's about a working man in an urban town, but you s even as a Londoner, you can relate to it. And it kind of opened the doors to say, you know, but maybe I, I could be in something like that. Maybe I've got a voice about the social things that go on in my country, you know? And that's, I think, what interested me in films in the first place. Films like Nil by Mouth, films like Scum, they're all, ab, they're about how we live socially.

**[0:30:55] Ray Winstone:** And I I think that's what kinda gave me the bug for it. You know,

**[0:30:58] Speaker 3:** well, when you when you see these stories that aren't like you said, they're not about, uh, the aristocracy or all these, or American, they're. They feel much more relatable in a way, and you think like, Yeah, I could do that, I could get into that.

**[0:31:09] Ray Winstone:** do you know? I remember watching the Raging Bull with my mate, me and me and my mate Tony Yates. We used to box together at the Reptile. And any boxing film that was out, we'd have it, you know, we'd be there, you know? And although the Raging Bull is a boxing film, and it's probably one of the greatest films you could ever go and watch, you know, cinematically, or in any other way. The way it's shot, the way it's acted, it's brilliant, you know, but you kinda realize, I mean, after I I know I've been in films in London where they're saying, we're we got a subtitler, you know, for the American audience.

**[0:31:42] Ray Winstone:** And I went, why? You know? The thing about film is if you watch it the first five minutes of a a foreign film, you if it's a good film, you'll start to understand it. And you'll hear it, you'll hear it in your ear, you know, uh, the Raging Bull. When they start talking in that, within five minutes, you're tuned into it and you realize it's not a just a film. It's not a film about boxing, actually, it's about a film.

**[0:32:08] Ray Winstone:** It's a film about the way people live, you know, yeah, and it's, uh, you know, a, and that's what makes a great film, you know, you can put a subject matter around it, you can put that in there. Sexy beast is a it's a love story, it's not a gangster movie, it's a love story, you know? And that's kind of what you gotta get, the vibe of great films, you know, that's what it should be.

**[0:32:31] Speaker 3:** I was gonna say that, Ray, I was gonna. And we were sort of jumping ahead to Sexy Beast, but I, I was gonna say, you're a performer, to sexy beast. It's not a it's not a gangster film, it's not a mobster film, it is a L, it's, I mean, it's everything, it's it's a love story. A and it's also this guy Gal, he's he's studying with, uh, not struggling with, but he's kind of he's. He's lived two lives, and now he's in this other part of his life.

**[0:32:54] Speaker 3:** And he and he's sort of gotta reconcile with his, with his past. And and and I. If he can't put it to bed, then he can't continue in this, in this piece that he's finally achieved and all of this stuff. And it's a, uh, I, I find it a I've. I've long maintained that that film should be shown at at film school. You could just show that one semester and say, that's it, just look at this film, He's a he's watch it every a clever boy, day.

**[0:33:16] Ray Winstone:** John the Johnny. Um, his first film was Will to Make, and I was he's he's a very clever man. But that film, for me, is, you know, I mean, Don Logan's The Nightmare comes into town, but we know he's coming. But for me, it also because we never made up our mind, w uh, who was doing what and what? What was anyone thinking about it? We just all let the audience do that, you know? But for me, it was always, I think, deep down inside, Gary really wanted to do the the robbery, he wanted to do the black, because that's in his blood, you know, that's in his blood.

**[0:33:52] Ray Winstone:** And I think that the the thing that kinda got in the way a bit was the love for D. Because he has to protect her. So his excuse is I'll do the robbery, because I know I'm ex. I'm actually protecting D by doing the robbery. Bullshit, I think, you know, when you're a good thief, when you're a good robber. I grew up with a really good mate of mine, Danny Jones, he won't mind me s calling him by his name.

**[0:34:18] Ray Winstone:** We sat together at school, we grew up together, and he was one of the Hatton Garden old men who done the robbery. Wow, he's actually just come out of prison again, you know? And I know Danny's story from being a kid, you know, um, his family were hungry, you know, and the only way out was to go and do. I'm not making excuses for him, he's a thief, you know, you get caught, you go to prison, that's it.

**[0:34:42] Ray Winstone:** But you know, there's a mentality behind them, you know, you, you do something for a purpose, to feed someone, to feed your family, and then you kind of fall in love with doing it. And it's the challenge is finding a way into that building without getting caught and getting out with the prize. You know, Bruce Reynolds, who's a great train robber? Uh, you'd sit there, you'd sit there and have, um, a glass of red wine with Bruce, and Bruce would talk to you like that, he'd talk to you like that.

**[0:35:16] Ray Winstone:** Lovely glasses he used to wear, but while he was talking to you, he'd be. He'd be looking at the room, what we call casing the joint, you probably still do the uh, you probably call it that in America, you know, casing the joint is. He has to work out a way, it doesn't matter if he's sitting in your front room, he has to work out a way. How you get in that room and out of that room without getting caught.

**[0:35:39] Ray Winstone:** And it's it's quite fascinating, you know? And that's what Gary is, that's what Gary is in Sexy Beast, you know?

**[0:35:45] Sean Hayes:** I, I. I was in college, I got arrested for stealing a turkey sandwich. Yeah, you bastard, oh what kind of you, time did you but I

**[0:35:53] Speaker 4:** do for that? a turkey

**[0:35:54] Sean Hayes:** I had to go to. I sandwich. had a turkey sandwich. I was hungry, like you said, I was starving, and I got arrested. And I. I went to the jail and I had to get a friend give me a hundred bucks to get out. I was eighteen, seventeen.

**[0:36:06] Ray Winstone:** Now, you know, your friends, though, you see, Sounds that's it, you like you didn't case find out who your friends the joints, man, sounds are, Yeah, I didn't and like you didn't who to trust. case it, case it, I didn't case Yeah, yeah,

**[0:36:12] Speaker 3:** you know?

**[0:36:12] Ray Winstone:** how was the turkey, by the way? Was it fresh?

**[0:36:15] Sean Hayes:** They took it out of my hands, they actually took it out of my hands. I was throwing the tomatoes out of them, and the cops drove by and saw me throwing tomatoes. Cause I don't like tomatoes on the sandwich. Yeah, You, And if you had, you are,

**[0:36:27] Speaker 3:** if you had, if you had eaten the tomatoes, you would've got away with it. probably, Look at this. probably. There you go, yeah, the sock The guy stood doesn't come right. The cop off.

**[0:36:34] Sean Hayes:** stood right in front of me. Well, I talked. I told this story already, but the cop stood right in front of me. And I was so drunk. And I looked up, I was like, What's, you know, what's up? And he's like, Well, we saw you steal that turkey sandwich, cause they had surveillance in the back, right? And um, I was like, Okay, so they put me in the car and then I do the the drunk guy thing.

**[0:36:52] Sean Hayes:** I'm like, there's not enough other bad stuff going on campus. You gotta arrest the guy stealing the turkey sandwich, like I was giving him lip, but like, you know, anyway, it's a non story. But

**[0:37:02] Ray Winstone:** Sean, if you do that three times, you steal three turkey sandwiches, you know, in different days. Is that three strikes? And out in America, I, yeah, you can go away

**[0:37:12] Sean Hayes:** that's a good, by the way.

**[0:37:13] Ray Winstone:** for thirty years or something.

**[0:37:14] Sean Hayes:** Good question, good question.

**[0:37:16] Speaker 4:** Hey, hey, Ray, when, when you, when you started to get some,

**[0:37:20] Speaker 6:** Um, you know, uh, uh, when you kind of made a commitment to to to really pursue the acting stuff. W You know, I would imagine there in England, there's, there's a. There's a big culture for classically trained acting and and and theater and Shakespeare, et cetera, et cetera. W Did you, did you subscribe to that? did you? were you? were you excited to explore that? Have you ever gone into that? Cause? It seems very much at odds with your uh, with your uh, with your your working class roots.

**[0:37:50] Speaker 6:** Maybe.

**[0:37:51] Ray Winstone:** Yeah, do you know? The biggest problem when I started was me, really, James, you know, to be perfectly honest with you, I I never felt that I sh me personally, that I should be in the arts, me in the arts. What have I got to do with the arts, you know? And um, so I kinda put that on myself without anyone doing it to me, you know? So I was, I wouldn't call myself an angry young man, because that makes you sound like you're a rebel without a cause.

**[0:38:18] Ray Winstone:** And all that cobblers, you know, it wasn't that so much, it was that people had different conversations than I would have. You know, I'd be talking about something completely different to what they were on, you know, they'd be talking about the theatre and how lovely, what a performance. And that I'd be talking about a football match, or, you know, or a bird Yeah, that's what or something, I mean, you know, you know, it's it's that that was me, you know, and and so I kinda didn't really fit in, and I didn't really try to fit in, you know, it was, it was okay, it was, and I w and I was quite happy with meself with that, you know, um,

**[0:38:52] Speaker 4:** sure. And your talent, your your quality, your, your, your technique. Or the the. What I so love about you is that that authenticity. And um, the I, I never, I never catch you acting. You're. It just seems like you're just so natural and and comfortable with it. Where did that come from? It d. It sounds like it did not come from, uh, a classical training that you kinda deconstructed and kinda made your own.

**[0:39:18] Speaker 4:** It's you're just natural with it. Yeah,

**[0:39:19] Ray Winstone:** well, I just had my own ideas, you know, and, uh, I remember doing a um, you might have heard this story, I dunno, but I don't mean to bore you, right? But I done

**[0:39:27] Sean Hayes:** not at all.

**[0:39:27] Ray Winstone:** a. They used to do a lambda exam at college, you know, lambda exam. I mean, I thought, What does that mean? If if you get ten out of ten for the lambda exam, does that get you a job? I, I don't know, you know, why would you take a fucking exam to be an actor? You know, I've said that you know,

**[0:39:44] Sean Hayes:** my whole life.

**[0:39:44] Ray Winstone:** surely you put a camera near you and go and act, son, are you any good? or what? You know? But we had to do this speech with, um, Julius Caesar, you know, wherefore rejoice? What conquest brings he home? What tribunes follow him to Rome? And and all that. And I see all these people doing the same thing, you know, and doing it very well, you know, it was good, you know, and I just, I got this knack with Shakespeare, you know, everyone writes books about what it means, but, you know, and I and I.

**[0:40:13] Ray Winstone:** I did a uh, a sh, uh. A play for TV set in Birmingham on an estate about Macbeth, and I, you know, I played the King. And I just had my own ideas about what to be or not to be means, you know, to be or not to be, what to be, something or to be nothing. I don't know, fuck, you know. And so I was set this in a pub, this scene, and it's about a geezer who actually is, you know, prayed.

**[0:40:40] Ray Winstone:** All the all the all the people on the uh, around the manor have all gone. You know, we love this guy. And all of a sudden he gets done in and the new guy comes in and they all cheer at him. And that's what the scene's about. And I'd done it and I got zero, right? I'm not saying I've done it well, but I didn't even get one for imagination. You know, just didn't change it. And, you know, and I thought there's two ways you can go there.

**[0:41:05] Ray Winstone:** There's two ways. You can either say, well, you know, maybe I'm not supposed to be in this business, you know, or you can go fuck off. I ain't having it. And I think where the boxing and all that comes in, when you know, best form of defence is attack. You know, when he's on ya, you gotta step forward. So that's was kind of my mentality, and it was probably a lucky day when that happened, you know, just that thing of thinking, I'm a I'm a great believer.

**[0:41:34] Ray Winstone:** If you don't know the rules, then you break them, and that's when you invent something, and that's when you start doing something. That's hopefully original. It's not always good, and it n doesn't always work, but when it does work, it's fucking good, you know? And I, that's kinda my mentality about it, you know? I mean, I've watched stuff I've done and thought, thought I was. When I was doing it, I thought I was really good at it.

**[0:42:00] Ray Winstone:** I was really good at the day and I've seen it back and it's terrible.

**[0:42:04] Sean Hayes:** yeah yeah, I yeah.

**[0:42:06] Ray Winstone:** don't know how do you get away with? how do you get away with it? You know,

**[0:42:10] Sean Hayes:** Sure. Who? Who was the first person that you worked with, actor, director, whoever it was, that you were like, Holy shit, like this? I think I'm, I think I'm in there now, like, I think I've quote unquote made it.

**[0:42:23] Ray Winstone:** well, it's two I can go to really. But Alan Clark was the first one. I done a film called Scum, and I wasn't an actor at the time, you know, he, he kind of found me and he taught me on set, you know, by manipulation, by finding senses in me. And he knew how to upset me, he knew how to calm me down, he knew how to give me a cuddle and all that sort of stuff.

**[0:42:47] Ray Winstone:** So, and the lucky thing for me was when I've worked with a director that's not so good, I can kinda call on that myself now, you know, I kind of understand where that is. But it can also get in the way sometimes because you feel every part in every film you do, you have to play it real, it has to be spot on, you know? And it really fucks you about sometimes because the genre might be slightly different, you know, and you get that wrong.

**[0:43:16] Ray Winstone:** Um, the other one, I think the best, the best director for an actor I've ever worked with is Gary Oldman. Really, really.

**[0:43:25] Speaker 4:** I'll bet.

**[0:43:25] Sean Hayes:** yeah, he's amazing.

**[0:43:25] Ray Winstone:** Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's always that's from an actor's point of view, you know? So yeah,

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**[0:45:20] Sean Hayes:** Now, tell that old lady to slow down. Kids live around here. Southwest Airlines enter airplane mode. And back to the show.

**[0:45:35] Speaker 6:** What was it like standing across from, uh, from from Ben Kingsley? Uh, watching him do that performance? I i i. Did you have any warning about the way he was going to be playing that character? Or did you d like, was there rehearsals? was there a a table read? Um, or was it just, uh, right there? On the first day, you're sitting standing there in front of that, just machine gun of talent. Yeah, cause Um, you know,

**[0:46:00] Speaker 3:** that that dynamic between you two is just electric.

**[0:46:05] Ray Winstone:** it was, I tell, I tell you a little thing, right? When we, when Sexy Beast come about, there was three films. It was Gangster number one, Sexy Beast and Forty Four Inch Chest. I was supposed to do the three of them. Gangster number one had a falling out with the producers and all that, so we couldn't do that. I had a choice of doing that or doing Sexy Beast, so I done Sexy Beast. But I was gonna play Don at the part of Don.

**[0:46:30] Ray Winstone:** I said, Do you know what? I wanna play? Gary? I said, I've got I I've done Don. You c can't fucking help. Swear, he's fucking, you know, he's a fucking nut, and he just walks, clogs it, and that's fine. I, I can do that standing on me head. But you know, Gary's the lover, he's the man. And the words are so beautiful in Sexy Beast, they're words you wanna say, you know, you don't have to change a word.

**[0:46:58] Ray Winstone:** If you change a word, it doesn't work, you have to say the words that are on the page. That's very unusual, you know? So when Don was, I heard that Don was gonna get played by Ben, who I absolutely love to death, I gotta tell you. But I thought, fucking hell, I got I got Gandhi coming in, you know, eh? yeah, you

**[0:47:22] Speaker 6:** better tighten up.

**[0:47:24] Ray Winstone:** I gotta stand there and Gandhi's gotta bully me. Oh, well, hang on, that's gonna happen, you know, I thought, fucking hell, right? Okay? But then he doesn't turn up because he's locked in on this other film. So we're in Spain shooting around him, you know, all the scenes about him coming. It's a bit like Jaws, you went and see the shark, you know, and then he turns up and you know, the rest phenomenal, absolutely. What he done with that character, there there's people that you meet in your life that become very hard work to talk to.

**[0:47:58] Ray Winstone:** You, in fact, you're you're frightened to ask them a question, you know, how you been today? All right, why? What do you wanna know? What? That's that kinda, you know, and we've all met people like that, you know, and you think they're fucking hard work. That's Don, but a million times more, you know? And I thought he was stunning in it, you know?

**[0:48:18] Speaker 4:** yeah, oh, incredible. Did you have, um, did you have a sense of of of the kind of director that Jonathan Glazer was was was about to become?

**[0:48:28] Ray Winstone:** Yeah, I, I I think, uh, as an artist, yeah, because we'd seen his commercials. He told you a story in thirty seconds. The thing was, can he tell you a story in an hour and a half, two hours? That's the big thing. Stretch it out. We know the way he films and shoots something, we know it's gonna be beautiful, you know, he's gonna get it right, he's a genius. But how's he gonna be with actors? How's he gonna be able to talk to us, you know, and sit us down and suss us out

**[0:48:55] Speaker 4:** And how was that?

**[0:48:56] Ray Winstone:** within a week? Yeah, within a week, he got that, he got it,

**[0:49:02] Speaker 4:** his very first movie.

**[0:49:03] Ray Winstone:** yeah, and that was his first film, you know, feature film. Um, I think we had a lot of respect for him anyway, you know? So it was quite easy for him, you know, the casting was great.

**[0:49:14] Speaker 3:** the casting was amazing. But it as as you know, like w with film, I, you know, the tone is so important, right? In maintaining that tone consistently. And especially in that film, when you've got you and Ben and and this incredible cast, and keeping it in such a specific tone. And it either floats or it doesn't, you know?

**[0:49:35] Ray Winstone:** yeah, do you know, do you know? It's a really good point, it's a good point, Will, because I ki I kind of it. It takes me back now. I kind of remember, cause cause Don's was do it, do it, do it. He had a pace about him and he had a a turn on him, you know? And I remember thinking to myself, I'm not gonna get into that rhythm. I think I'm talking on the off beat, so if you both start talking at the same beat, if you like, like Shakespeare, you know, if they do Shakespeare and it's now, it's the winter of Discontent.

**[0:50:10] Ray Winstone:** Everyone starts talking the same. It's like a poem, you know, it's not like people talking. So I felt to make it kinda work, I've got to make mine the reality, and it is surreal, you know? And I had to think that everything that's going on is in my head, you know, with the rabbit and all that's the nightmare, Don turning up this, it's like you're having a nightmare and then you're waking up to this fucking hell, you know?

**[0:50:41] Ray Winstone:** And so the way you talk, you can't put it on the same rhythm as him, you gotta have your own rhythm, you know? And it disjoints it a bit, you Yeah, of know, do it, do it, course, do it. I can't, don

**[0:50:55] Speaker 3:** but it became, yeah, like

**[0:50:56] Ray Winstone:** I can't.

**[0:50:56] Speaker 3:** i i. It became its own rhythm, the offer then became its own rhythm. And you guys, and do you do you? Th- It occurs to me that, you know, you worked for a long time, you made a lot of films and a lot of TV shows, et cetera, before Sexy Beast, which was, I think, in 2,000. And then I think it was almost one of those things. When that film comes out, everybody goes, Hey, we've been sleeping on Ray Winstone.

**[0:51:18] Speaker 3:** This guy is, this guy's a heavyweight. And and and all of a sudden you go on a run, uh, and you make a lot of films and you, you know, within a couple years, you're working with, uh, Martin Scorsese, which you did a few times. Uh, w was, was that a w, you know? W? When you made that film and you c. You come out of that, and the reception that Sexy Beast gets, is it one of those things?

**[0:51:39] Speaker 3:** Like? And when everybody goes, Hey, w all of a sudden, that in in a way, it's a rediscovery of you. A and you're like, Yeah, I, I've been here all along, I know what I'm doing, you know?

**[0:51:49] Ray Winstone:** uh, yeah, there is, but the, you know, I don't, I don't know about you guys, but I, I kind of went through a few years where where I just kind of fell out of love with it all. And it maybe that was to do with because I was, I was enjoying myself too much, you know, I was having a party, you know, and I loved life and I loved being there. And the the kind of the work always has come second, to be honest with you, you know, that's the work, that's what you do for a living, you know, but what comes with that, you know?

**[0:52:17] Ray Winstone:** Oh, you jet off to New Zealand, you do this, and and you go to a nice restaurant, you have a bit of manjaree, it's lovely, you know? So the work, even to this day, is still secondary. It's there for a purpose. You get to seventy years of age, you look back, you go. Yeah, I ain't doing it now because I fucking love it, you know, I'm doing it now because I gotta. I gotta go to work, you know, this is what we do, and if I, if I don't go to work, I'll probably die.

**[0:52:42] Ray Winstone:** But there was a time where I kinda, you know, I let it go and I, and and the actual work suffered, you know, the quality of what I was doing, I felt it suffered. And I thought to myself, you know, I don't really wanna do this anymore, you know? Cause I'm not enjoying it, and I'm not enjoying being here, I'm not enjoying, you know, drinking all the time, I enjoy being down the pub and cain in it with everyone else.

**[0:53:07] Ray Winstone:** I don't wanna do that no more. So, and then, you know what? And then you go and make a little British film, you know, which I've just done, you know, going under four and a half weeks. It took the film Ma- a major motion picture and loved every minute of it. And then all of a sudden you go, Oh, well, that's what it's really all about, you know, it's kind of work, everyone, you love everyone at work, and you know, and and it's quality, you know,

**[0:53:34] Sean Hayes:** Speaking about work, though, I mean, sorry to ask such a pedestrian question, but like, you know, y y y, what did you do before? Like, was there any really weird job growing up that you were like, do doing it to make ends meet before you made some money acting?

**[0:53:51] Ray Winstone:** yeah, I mean, when when he was ki my my dad dad worked in, you know, all my uncles were either meet, uh, worked in the meat market, fruit market or the fish market, you know, Yeah, yeah, that's most of them anyway, just classic you know, guy, dads and uncles and that. So we never went hungry, you know, there was, there was plenty of spillage going on, you know, and so there, there'd always be cartons of booze turning up and everyone was at it.

**[0:54:14] Ray Winstone:** It's twelve years after the Second World War, you know, so everyone was on it, you know, so, and that's you kind of learn to survive, and the only way you learn to survive is is not sitting in your arse indoors. You go out and get something, whatever that is, you know. And so I've always been a good grafter, you know, I've always been up them. When I worked in, you know, Spitalfields market when I was fourteen, you know, pulling barrows and that's what we done, you know.

**[0:54:38] Ray Winstone:** And then we'd be out and about, ducking and diving, that's fine, that's blinding,

**[0:54:43] Sean Hayes:** Ducking and diving.

**[0:54:43] Ray Winstone:** but I've seen that world and I've seen. I've been lucky enough to go to places in the world where you wouldn't go on holiday. You go there because you work, you know, you're filming there, you know, and you meet people in these countries that are from these countries, you fall in love with them, you know. And it's such an education, you know, I couldn't read when I was eleven, you know? But through reading scripts, I can read now just about, you know, I can read now, you know.

**[0:55:10] Ray Winstone:** So, you know, it's the the what the business has done for me, if anything, it's educated me, you know?

**[0:55:17] Speaker 7:** Right. Has it has it has has it, uh, has all your success and all this luxurious, has it made you soft at all? Has, ha, have Yeah, I you?

**[0:55:25] Ray Winstone:** hope so. I really hope so.

**[0:55:27] Speaker 7:** no, I mean, like, I like, could, you could do you think you could, you think you could manage in the, in the rough and scrabble sort of world, uh, uh, that, that, that you started in. Do you, do you go, do you go back there a lot, or are you still there? Yeah, I mean, as Yeah,

**[0:55:43] Ray Winstone:** I say, most of my friends come from where I was growing up, you know, and they still are, you know, and some of them, I know some were, what, some were, some were cab drivers, you know, some work as porters or were in the fish market, you know, I got that's what my mates do. And the beauty of that is when I finish work and I'm eating for a drink, no one fucking talks about this business.

**[0:56:08] Ray Winstone:** They might say, I've seen a really good film, you see that film the other night, and I tell you, yeah, bosh, bosh, bosh. Have a little rabbit about that, you know, but we talk about other things, you know. And it's great. You know, when you sit down and having a cigar, I said, Did you see that wonderful play last week, darling? No, I got nothing wrong with that, but, you know, at the same time, fuck me, that's not for me, you know?

**[0:56:28] Speaker 5:** are you your big, your big West Ham fan, a supporter, is that right? Yeah, the Hammers, the Hammers. Uh, so going on a bit of a tough run, they got relegated to the Championship for, uh, for Tracy, we always say Sean's sister is Tracy, and then we always, we always let her know in case she doesn't know the reference to West Ham or a Premier League team. They got relegated this year to the second division, which is oddly enough called the Championship.

**[0:56:53] Speaker 5:** Uh, it's a misnamed, but, uh, I'm a I'm a big Liverpool supporter, you should know, but, uh, Yeah, that's but I feel the way your pain, the world I feel your pain.

**[0:57:01] Ray Winstone:** do. You know, the world is a is a. There's a lot in common with West Ham and Liverpool because they're both dock teams, you know, come out from around the docks and, you know, working class people. And there's always been that kind of respect between West Ham and Liverpool in that way, funnily enough.

**[0:57:16] Speaker 7:** we're uh, so wait, so West Ham's in the same division with, uh, with Rob's team, right? With Wrexham Uh, Re, with now, yeah. Oh, Wrexham. Yeah,

**[0:57:24] Speaker 5:** Wrexham's in the championship. yeah, what do you Yeah, in the

**[0:57:26] Speaker 7:** think about that? Championship. What do you think about Wrexham? Uh, they've made this, this jump. What? Once a year, they're, they're, they're moving up a division, Win up four right? it's fantastic, divisions, yeah,

**[0:57:33] Ray Winstone:** isn't it? And you know what, it's livened it up a little bit and all. They've done a good job there, the boys, what can you have, you know, and what they've done, they brought the whole T town together as well. You know, it's not just about the football, it's about the community in that area, what they've done. It's quite a fantastic job all oh, that's paths. Will great. Yeah, it's good, it's

**[0:57:51] Speaker 5:** good. They're good guys. Rob Rob is a good friend See, of mine.

**[0:57:53] Ray Winstone:** that's what football football was originally that, you know, and you supported the team where you lived, where you were bread and born, where you came from. It's your manner, right? And that's West Ham, I come out of West Ham, right? So that's why I support West Ham. For me, you know, you come out of Liverpool, you support Liverpool. Now it's it's such a modern game, you know, it's about the players that play there for a short while, that someone will support Manchester City, someone will pu support Liverpool or Manchester United, and they don't come from there, you know, it's kind of strange that kind of that kind of vibe, you know?

**[0:58:30] Ray Winstone:** I can understand it if you're watching it in America and you come from America and then you like soccer, and then I can understand why you'd pick a team like Liverpool, you know? And that's me being nice, Will.

**[0:58:40] Speaker 5:** yeah, okay. I well, I, I come by it naturally, cause my, uh, my good friend, uh, Chappie, he's, uh, he's been a Liverpool supporter forever. So I just kinda went with him because e I didn't know much about all the listeners it. But, uh, I and watchers just back, yeah, before we, before we let you go, uh, uh, Ray, cause you've been so generous with your time. I wanted to ask you about, uh, uh, uh, it now occurs to me.

**[0:59:00] Speaker 5:** You mentioned watching Raging Bull and and really, uh, and really appreciating it as a film at the time and understanding that it's not just a boxing film, it's so much. And then you find yourself years later working with Martin Scorsese. Was that a was that a surreal experience for you? The first time you but worked with?

**[0:59:16] Ray Winstone:** that's like playing in the cup final, Will, you know, if for me, anyway, for the films that I grew up watching and and watching these films from Mean Street and all that, Johnny Fingers, all them, the early ones that were kind of he was kind of connected to with with, uh, with the guys. And all the way through to make an actual gangster film by Scorsese, you know, was a a bit of a blast for me.

**[0:59:43] Ray Winstone:** Real blast, you know? And you kind of feel like you've reached the pinnacle there, you know, a little bit, you know, I mean, my, I was up for to play one of the policemen, you know, in it. And, uh, I went to see him at the Dorchester. And I just said, I can't, I can't play a cop, I can't play a policeman, you know, I've got to be in a Martin Scorsese film, I've got to be a gangster.

**[1:00:04] Ray Winstone:** I'm sorry. You know? And we had a we had a good chat, Marty. He's a very funny guy, very nice man. And, um, I said, Can I play Mister French? And he said, But Mister French don't say anything. I said, Well, that's how you find out about the guy, the gangster, because he's got to have a mate, you know? I said, I'll just rabbit on around, you know, I'll just talk while they're doing their bits and all that.

**[1:00:31] Ray Winstone:** They said, Okay, kid, yeah, we'll do that. And that's kind of how it came about, you know,

**[1:00:36] Sean Hayes:** Oh, God.

**[1:00:37] Ray Winstone:** and I, you know, I, I absolutely loved him. And, uh, we kind of we didn't fall out. We kind of had a. I said, my British humor probably went down the wrong way, you know? When he, uh, he said to me, kid, you're going home. He said, Just when I'm beginning to understand what you're talking about, right? Well, And I said, I said, that's all right, Marty, I'll see you at the reshoots, right? And it kind of, cause Marty's known, were going on filming.

**[1:01:07] Ray Winstone:** It went that down like a bag of shit, you know, what I mean, it goes down to. So, you think

**[1:01:12] Sean Hayes:** Oh, really?

**[1:01:13] Ray Winstone:** I've annoyed millions of people in the fucking world, so I shouldn't worry about one. But

**[1:01:16] Sean Hayes:** So he, so he wasn't kind of, he wasn't kind of getting your humor or your style But, it's or whatever.

**[1:01:21] Ray Winstone:** but British humor is kind of a different from American humor, you know, you know,

**[1:01:27] Sean Hayes:** it's a little, it's a little weirder.

**[1:01:29] Speaker 7:** that's a co. That's a common phrase, though. I, I've said that a thousand times. You, d leaving a project, yeah, but not the you know, you kinda,

**[1:01:34] Ray Winstone:** Martin Scorsese.

**[1:01:36] Speaker 5:** That's, yeah, that's true.

**[1:01:38] Speaker 7:** yeah, often not the director of the film. Yeah,

**[1:01:41] Ray Winstone:** Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably not.

**[1:01:42] Speaker 5:** uh, Ray, I'd be, I'd be, uh, I'd be, be remiss if I didn't mention. I did mention at the top, uh, uh, the gentlemen, season two, this series, and I've, uh, yeah, yeah, just talk a little bit if you will. It's, uh, it's out now on Netflix, uh,

**[1:01:55] Ray Winstone:** Well, I've, I've seen one episode from season two. The first season I thought was great. I loved it, you know, the chicken scene is my favorite scene I've ever seen on T V, you know, when he's in the chicken suit with the shooter and all that. It's very good. And, um, I've spoke to all the journalists here about what they've seen, cause I've just come off a junket, you know, and um, all the journalists say it's better.

**[1:02:18] Ray Winstone:** If if you believe journalists, I b do we believe the journalists when father it comes to

**[1:02:21] Speaker 7:** of the Bachelor.

**[1:02:22] Ray Winstone:** this? Yeah, yeah, well, they say it's the yeah, season two's better, so that's the vibe, you know? Ah, good, So it starts today anyway, so I shall probably watch it a bit of it later on Well, we will, and see how it's going. Yeah, but

**[1:02:37] Speaker 7:** we will.

**[1:02:37] Ray Winstone:** it's, it's, it's a great, it's great working with with this little mob. They were, they were a good little family. And, um, and working with Guy, you know, it changes every day, the scripts change. So you'll get a four, four page dialogue scene, you know, but masses of dialogue, quite tricky, and you learn it. And then you go the next day and he's thought about it and he said, here's the new one, right? You go, fuck this, you know, lovely.

**[1:03:05] Ray Winstone:** But it's better. When you read it, it's better. And it's as long as it's better, it's all right. Because once you've learnt the first one, you can learn the second one and away you go. Well, And it's even with the actual film, the story you've read on the page, ain't the story you're gonna watch when you see the final episode. It's it changes, it's, it's the film's made in the editing room, really, and it, but it's for the better.

**[1:03:33] Ray Winstone:** You can't moan with that, you know?

**[1:03:35] Speaker 5:** well, it's a, it's a, it's a, it comes with a lot of, uh, the the auspices of it are pretty great. It's, uh, it's created by Guy Ritchie, uh, it's you and and Theo James and, uh, Giancarlo Esposito, with some of the people, and Jolie Richardson, Hugh Bonneville. I mean, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's packed with a lot of talent from, uh, in in every department on that, on that show. So,

**[1:03:55] Ray Winstone:** Yeah, lovely.

**[1:03:56] Speaker 5:** wish you wish you a lot of luck with it, man. And, uh, it's just been such a joy to have you, Ray. I've been just such a massive fan for a long, long time. And and, uh, really, just, uh, uh, just, you know, couldn't, uh, just love everything you yeah, it's do. terrific,

**[1:04:10] Speaker 7:** yeah, same here. terrific.

**[1:04:10] Ray Winstone:** Well, it's, you know what, guys, that's really kind of you. Thank you very much. And, uh, you know, I'm, I'm honored to be on your show. I've seen some of the people you've had on there before, so it's it's a real privilege for me and it's nice to me to see faces that I see on the telly that I don't know. I'm happy now.

**[1:04:27] Speaker 7:** back at you. Yeah, pleasure Maybe one to meet you, sir.

**[1:04:29] Ray Winstone:** day we'll sit down and we'll have a glass or something. Would love We'll, you know, we'll that.

**[1:04:32] Speaker 7:** Let's do it.

**[1:04:32] Ray Winstone:** be lovely, lovely.

**[1:04:32] Speaker 7:** Yeah, when you're done with Malta, go out there, reapply your sunblock. yes, I Alright, will do. Yes, alright, sir. Alright, God bless pleasure talking you. to you. Thank you so much. right, thank you so Have a good nice to meet you much. day. pal.

**[1:04:43] Speaker 5:** What an honor.

**[1:04:43] Ray Winstone:** Thank you very much. You're right.

**[1:04:45] Speaker 5:** Cheers, cheers. Bye.

**[1:04:46] Ray Winstone:** Oh, Pat, here, boys, bye-bye,

**[1:04:47] Speaker 5:** Yeah, cheers. bye-bye. Bye-bye. bye-bye. Oh, man, what an absolute treat. Guys, The Winstone. guys, what a treat. I

**[1:04:57] Sean Hayes:** He's like a guy you could just hang out and talk to for hours, like, I was literally I

**[1:05:01] Speaker 7:** planning on watching Sexy Beast tomorrow night. So I'm all teed up now, ready Oh, that's to go. great. Yeah,

**[1:05:07] Speaker 5:** I'm such a fan. I didn't even get to talk to him about Quadrophenia, a film that I adore as well, that that he made. oh, I've never You know, that film, that,

**[1:05:13] Speaker 7:** seen that. I can see oh, it's so that, that's

**[1:05:14] Speaker 5:** good, and all the music by the Who, and it's, oh, it's a great movie. I was, I always really,

**[1:05:19] Sean Hayes:** find that, like, so interesting when tough guys like that are such like, down-to-earth, sweetheart, normal, you know? Cause, like, if you see him, you're like, Holy shit, that guy's gonna beat the shit out of me. And then you talk to him, you're like, Oh, he's like the sweet, normal kind guy.

**[1:05:33] Speaker 7:** got nothing to prove.

**[1:05:34] Speaker 5:** No, and no, it doesn't. And he and he plays tough guys, but he's, he's, and, you know, exemplified in Sexy Beast, but a lot of his other roles, he, he's, he brings so many layers to it. There's a real, always like, real pathos to his character. Yeah, I I, I don't wanna hang know, I just,

**[1:05:46] Sean Hayes:** out with him.

**[1:05:47] Speaker 5:** I know I totally wanna hang out with him too. I feel like you could. He just drops these nuggets of like, sort of wisdom that he's kind of picked up along the way. And he's, as he mentioned, like, educated through doing what we do, and it's been an education for him. And it's, and it's an education hanging out with a guy like him, Yeah, for you know?

**[1:06:04] Sean Hayes:** sure, for sure. You know, just, And so many big movies, um, probably the biggest one was The Departed, I think. Yeah, one of them, one of them. And I can't remember who directed that was directed. By Martin by, by Scorsese.

**[1:06:18] Speaker 5:** lazy, but by, by. bye. Smart, Less Smart, Less Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbico, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjarv.

**[1:06:42] Speaker 9:** Smart, Less.

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