RE-RELEASE: Ben Affleck

Well, you know, I just can't get enough of that opening song. I just think it's just It's so good, great,

It's under our voices right now. Can you hear it right under us?

right? Yeah, and that just kinda gets me going.

Oh, I'm being real boy, by I know it's the way, boy, super impressive. by this Well, you always call thing.

me a robot. It's kinda like my little theme song, I know. Yeah, right?

yeah, it is like a little thing for a little robot thing, but it's playing underneath us right now. Calm She's gonna kick in down, in a second, kick in and just take my start kicking, kicking in, class. kicking in. Three, two, one, The Then Then, the the then, then,

Smart, wise, smart, wise, smart, wise,

now, uh, so we had a little record earlier today, and now we're having our 2nd record. There was a gap in between where lunch usually sits, and I always, whenever this happens, I'd love to know what Sean had,

Oh, good. I had, uh, chicken curry with rice and, uh, cauliflower and sweet potatoes, and then I had a huge bowl of ice cream after.

wait, y- you had chicken curry with rice? I, I did not. I did not know that, uh, chef we already made that. That's

right? Or chinchin. funny, that's that's yeah, but

you see, I didn't change. I still I'm still in my smartless

No, we got that. merch shirt. Yeah, Yep, smartless all right, merch. There's some good stuff in there. I was, uh, I guess I shouldn't be surprised, cause we looked at it all before it went in there. But

let me tell you something. I slept in this. Shop, shopsmartless. com. It's the best oh, it's, lap

it's, it's sleepable. Soft.

is that what it is? Wait, is it shop smartless. com? For real? shop smartless. com. Yeah,

What's it again? You should know that Sorry, Sean, what'd you say,

shop shopsmartless. com. It's gr- it's I'm telling you, y- y- Are you sleep in the sweats? You put the hat on when you roll out of bed? It's great.

who, um, did you design the blanket? Those big, heavy blankets? You did, right? You wanted I didn't the heavy blanket,

design them, but I s what's that?

you wanted the heavy blanket.

I wanted a heavy blanket because I have an issue with a throw blanket. A throw blanket covers one leg, so I never understood the the the function of a throw blanket, no, I'm I suppose.

saying I like it cause it's n- it's it's weighty,

yeah, it's weighty, and it's big, it covers your whole body.

and it's, uh, it's like, um, what do you call it? Uh,

Warm?

fleece, like fleece, I guess? Is it fleece?

Hey, by the way, you Yeah, anyway, know what I did? I

oh, definitely. Whisper. got for Scottie, Yeah, okay, that's a good one.

for Scottie, I got him a surprise. Oh, for Scottie. Yeah, I got John Williams, the composer, to sign a page of the ET score for Jesus, Scottie. how'd you do that? Yeah,

did you just go? I, a or did you?

friend of mine knows h- is friends with his daughter, and then it just kind of made it happen.

are you guys good at that? Are you good? It sounds like you are, Sean, where you you sort of like, you remember what your, your friend or partner or kid or whatever really loves. uh, oh, here And you work

we go.

on it for a few months and you get the perfect gift, like, Do you do that yeah, I love every year?

doing that.

Really? Hey, Wa- Will, you don't need to go up high like everybody in the world does it, except you, Jason. like, I don't do

it, so that's why I can say I don't do me too. he's Will of course, we

is Will. do, Will's very good at throwing money at a gift, of course, you know? It's like,

Sean and I am very good at that.

you're very good at that. Whereas Sean, you will, you'll do sort of a sentimental thing. Or I remember you said in July that what you wanted for Christmas was, that's right. Like, uh-huh,

I clocked, I clocked last year for, um, for Maples birthday, she said. She just mentioned that she loved skateboarding, so I got her a skateboard or a certificate for a skateboarding thing.

yes, and we went and spent the hell out of that.

Did you?

you remember that's how she broke all her teeth, remember? Thanks, Sean. yeah, so that's So by the time she broke just her arm and all her teeth came in, she just hit her teeth out.

that's why she's got those flippers now.

and we've got this memory of her, and she takes her teeth out every night, she thinks of you when she has to take them out. Hey,

And by the way, though, back to the ice cream thing, I didn't tell you this, Jay. Last episode we recorded, you we talked about you having their, uh, what is it called? The

Uh, root canal.

root root canal? I had a cavity

you had one.

and I just got, yeah, just last week, and I there's n- I got a crown for one.

not possibly your 1st.

No, oh my god, I have so many, but

Do you?

at 52 years old, I have a cavity.

oh, they're gonna start coming Well, fast and furious.

that is strange. Let's take a look at your diet. Um,

Yeah, but what what is strange about things on your body degenerating as you get older?

Well, but I floss and I brush and I do everything, so it's like, The better why? Huh?

teeth, teeth don't play by that.

no, cause they're sitting in sugar all day. I will say this,

when you're having ice cream, when you're having dessert for lunch, breakfast, you have a he had it you have a for you have a situation, I love

he had dessert for breakfast the other day. Hey, I, I did have a thing, um, where my fa- one of my favorite sweeteners that I use, and I don't wanna say which one, uh, with my coffee. Cause I thought, Oh, I'm not having sugar for a few years. I've been using a sweetener, and I see that one of its ingredients. The this study came out yesterday, a huge study saying that it causes, like, uh, strokes and heart attacks and yeah, oh, I shit.

saw that. Yeah, Yeah, I'm really so fucking. I know, yeah, I'm so fucking bummed. well. W- Well,

so you don't wanna say this publicly since it's already public?

Well, it just cause it's an odd, so I don't wanna call it's like out the one particular being it's, it's, brand. Yeah, I don't wanna,

yeah, it's being reported on or whatever, right? I Oh so, the sweet know,

the the sweetening component is the problem, not the that's right, brand.

right. One of the ingredients in So then it that

what is the ingredient? may Do you remember? Cause forget I wanna

what it's called.

know if I'm, if I'm having agave. a, is it agave? it's in a lot no, I know,

of it's in a lot of s the sort of stevia-centric sweeteners. Shit, Have it in there. really? Yeah, Yeah, is that is that well, I'm, what you're using?

yeah, I'm mainline stevia. Damn it,

so so a lot I, I know, I don't know if pure s I, I, I don't know, but I I know that some of them have it in that's right, it. Anyways, guys, I know, kinda real uplifting, huh?

all right. Let's get to Are we

it, guys.

ready for our guest? Oh, I guess, let's

get to the guest, sure,

before I die, let's get it done.

at least we'll know why.

I gotta s I have, I gotta say, I get some of the best guests. This guy has had Did you write not one,

this intro? Did you write this intro?

this is the intro. Yeah,

Did you write it?

of course, I did. Yeah,

Yeah, that's good.

this guy has n- has had not one, but two songs written about him by a huge pop star. Most would agree he's Hollywood royalty, being an Academy Award-winning filmmaker, a heavy-hitting movie star who's portrayed a very famous DC. comic book character on screen multiple times. But most importantly, just Who an all-around great guy call it that I'm so happy to call a friend who I love a whole bunch, and I know you fellas do too. Please welcome to Smartless, Mr.

Benjamin Gazza Affleck Bolt.

Ben, j- Ben, jamaica? Oh, no,

There he is. Oh, I love him, I love him. that

wait a second. How did was Sean get you? And I don't, god damn it,

because I like him and he's a great guy.

you are a good actor. You I always feel like I'm liked when I'm around you.

Where are you? Are you in the basement? I'm in my lair, No, no, in the lower lair,

because crime might need to be fought. I am, yes, wait. What it's, uh,

songs have been written about you? dear Ben the songs and dear Ben, part that have been written two.

about me have been written by the greatest Jennifer Lopez um performer in the history of the world, Jennifer Lopez. I don't know that they're exactly so much about me as maybe inspired by, because, um, you know, cause there's some negative things in there.

so they're aimed at you.

Yeah, I was gonna say, are they flattering?

She's amazing, yes, can you imag- And also, I th- also, there is a 3rd song written about me, but not by anyone gifted. Uh, Jimmy Kimmel wrote a song about me called Unfucking Ben Affleck.

Oh, wait, did, uh, did,

Did he really? uh, did Jennifer Did

write the songs about you during or when you weren't dating?

Jennifer R- I, you know what, Jason? Uh-huh, well, this Can you ask is I. I just me these questions

wanted to know if there had in private been songs or sad songs.

over and over? And I tell you, if you wanna ask Jennifer about her career, if you're interested in her work, go ahead and screw your courage I I to the sticking place learned. and ask her.

I learned a lot about, uh, about her with that great documentary. Um,

I love that. that was really, I loved it. really

When I'm in a meeting, cool. Yeah, everybody

Yeah, I loved it. watched that, that I thought that

was very good. was incredible, you Yeah, and by know,

the way, that's the 1st time I know we're gonna interview you in just a second. But Jennifer Lopez, who was on Will Grace twice or three times, whatever, was she and sh-

on Will Grace? That's fun. And I was, I was, I on not 1, 2, no times I genuinely you were, this is the story of my Will was, life. I wasn't. Yeah,

but she was. But that documentary blew me away because I was like, my God, the what the woman has accomplished is astounding. yeah, and she's, It's just, It takes not done a big yet.

man not to feel inadequate in the face of my wife's many, many.

but um, but no, but she, but you too, you too, you've, you've accomplished.

Oh, I don't feel bad about myself. It's not so mu- I'm not low self-esteem. I'm not that. Well, I, I'm fishing a little bit, but not the no. The truth is, it's amaze. Sometimes I think I, like, completely forget because th- here's this incredible actress and this incredible performer. And then we're sitting in the car, you know, and I'm humming along like, I will, you know, the radio. And then a h- a professional singer goes ahead and, and, you know, sings along.

And you kinda feel like, well, that's embarrassing, maybe I should just zip it.

do you know all her music? Don't lie, I do know, uh, can you sing on all of her songs?

not to you.

No, but you know them, though, like I I, you can't, I, I mean, I can't. I wait, this I can't is gonna be get a J Lo

like, put me on the

song past you that you spot, but haven't heard

Waiting for the night. Oh,

I, I, that's the remix, there it is, that's my I like when bum.

Sean does it, sound it kinda sounds like Cher is doing a re- waiting for uh, singing it. the But that wasn't like night.

a Cher waiting for something. I think she for the actually might be kinda goat. now you're making me self-conscious, like, Oh gosh, if I were on, like, Jeopardy, would I miss a question? But I do love her music, it's brilliant, and I know,

who doesn't?

uh, all of it. Thank you, yeah, Jason, I agree.

don't put him on the fucking spot Yeah, fuck him, like a jerk.

I just, I just, I

What do you mean?

just know, right?

Oh, what do you? What do Wait, you don't you? What do you?

remember your wife's birthday? Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's true, now it starts

that's true.

with an A.

It is surprising. No, wait a second now. Ben, uh, Yes, hi, b- hi Ben Affleck,

like Ben Affleck's on here. Hi Ben, We, I don't It's kinda great.

really. We don't know each Hi, thank you, other, somebody.

Yes, hi, we I. I don't have the pleasure of knowing you, but everybody who knows you likes you a great deal. and and I feel And is often li- like Bateman, you, he is, he's doing a show with Bateman, which is really so, I mean, it's good for it's surprising you, that you're yeah, it is, on

it is surprising.

it's surprising.

And, uh, and as you know, uh, yes, so you, but you and Jason have known each other for a number of years. Yeah, I I Question

know. Just a long time and had the chance to do, like, now, 4 movies with the guy. I know, And very lucky

and and by the way, the trailer for Air And now you're looks incredible.

looks amazing for your guy for the new movie you guys did that you've invited Jason to be part of. And any regrets, and you can be honest now, you can be if you have regrets about I gotta tell this.

you, I mean, usually, and I hate, you know, when people come on shows and they're like, You know, you're great, no, but what you bring? Because it's just so fucking boring to listen to, and you have to. But I'm yeah, I hear gonna do it and let me tell you why, because it's actually true, and I've lied so many times that it's nice to get the chance. Jason is fucking amazing Guys, let him in the movie finish.

and has has Jason the hardest part in the movie, which is the part where you're supposed you're the guy who's like. But if we don't make it to the train station by six, you know, the whole ti- you know, is constantly

Yeah, all exposition.

having to tell the audience just play what the stakes are. Look out, What's gonna happen?

turn right.

And somehow, like, made himself, you know, the most, I think, like, the most, uh, you know, compelling, real. You're drunk, it's brilliant, a lot of I love it's improv and funny, and a lot of Yeah, well, it's just humanity, but it's Jason's brilliant. And it was such a I was really lucky, cause that it's mo- what Matt did very easy. You're the lead, you're that guy, and you have those lines and you know what this scene is.

This is me looking out the window and

that's different. it's music, you know,

that's gonna help you, that's the wind at your back.

I was the one working.

Do you know, by the way, you should know, Ben, that we were at we. We watched, uh, the Super Bowl at at at Kimmel's, and

Oh yeah, the I have a pro. This is a problem.

hang on. I have a problem So we're watching

with this.

and w- and and at that moment that the that the ad for your movie came on, Jason and I were sitting there. And Jimmy happened to kinda drift in right between us. And then I said, Hey, quiet, everybody, here's the here's the the the commercial for the big movie. And Jason was all excited. And then there was just a silhouette Just a flash for a second and then nothing. silhouette. Yeah, And then Jason's daughter goes, Dad, I thought you were in that movie.

in front of my kids, Ben,

That can't be true. both kids,

It's a true story, right? Jason? Is that true?

it's a true story. But listen, there's many different

I mean, it's my fault in the sense commercials. that I did see it and not notice, but but This is, it's not my fault this is in the sense I didn't make it. And let me can I talk to your daughter? Your this is, this is, your dad is very good, this is all, and he's this is all in

a joke. But it wa- it was actually pretty funny. It was like, Hey, thought you were in that, and everybody goes back to their chips and watching dude, I've other.

been there, you know what I mean? If things aren't panning out in your career and you've been in the movie and all of a sudden you're like, I I think I show up in this train. No, the worst, Nope, they uh, no, the worst were sh-

is when you're at the premiere and they go past the point where you know y- your big scene was, and it's it's now gone. And they've moved on and you're like, Oh, I guess that was cut.

you're like, Mom, no, this is where I have the monologue. O- o- o- o- oh, maybe it's comes later now, I don't And then, maybe it's know. Yeah,

during the credits, they saved it for during the credits.

anyway, I'll do it for you at home.

it'll probably need special features.

So Ben, t talk to me a little bit about, you know, we had Matt, who came and joined us on, um, on tour. He came to Madison, Wisconsin, cause when you think Madison, Wisconsin, you think Matt Damon.

That's the thing about Matt is he'll always do something nicer than me. Yeah, he's like, Matt, hey, what you're doing's great, you know? Matt went a whole lot further. Yes, no, go ahead,

no, but we did we. But we talked to him about about how you guys started and how you guys knew each other back in the day and what that was like when you guys were kind of Yeah, it was really both. Yeah, it was. It was great, really hearing from him. And I and and I'd love to hear your perspective of how you guy and I'm I'm sure you've told told it a million times, so forgive me if if it's you know, if it's boring.

But for us, it's really I love that story. And I told Matt, I remember we made this really bad, um, I, I say bad, but my friend remember, but this really, uh, pretty chintzy version of a movie called Southie. And you guys came to the wrap party that I was in, and then you guys were about to do Good Will Hunting. And then our movie was like they buried it under a couch somewhere, and then you guys went on to, like, amazing.

But I just love the beginnings of what you and Matt did, and I wanna hear it from you. Uh, cause I think it's a great story.

And by the way, I had no idea you guys grew up so close to each other. No idea.

yeah, we do. First of all, it's like it's a really lucky thing. It occurs to me now, I saw him the other day. We're doing this movie together. Is very few people are lucky enough to spend their life in the same line of work with their best friend. From when they were kids, managed to, you know, stay friends, not end up hating each other, actually be friends and love each other. And

and not have one of them soar to the stratosphere and the other one be have nothing

that was brief.

ever happen. But no, no, but I'm saying, like, that's like, that's what usually hap- the fact that both you guys are superstars. Um, so, in context, the reason we're asking this hacky question is because in Air, the film that we're talking about, Ben, for the very, very 1st time, directs Matt.

I love it, it's full circle. I love it, I love it.

yeah, I mean, I. It was something that seemed really normal that I took for granted, cause there we were, we were kids who he was a bigger kid, uh, for a brief period. I was 8, he was 10, he was a big kid. He played baseball, he was really cool, he had a bowl cut that was a little feathered that we all wanted, of course. And he and he was, um, you know, nice to me, and we were both, uh, interested in the same.

We just just kids who grew up two blocks apart and both wanted to be actors. Uh, for whatever reason, it is that makes you wanna do that thing and hung out and then were in the same, the same friend group. And then sort of went off and did, like, oh, let's, you know, we're just like, dumb and enough to think like, it'll pan out for us. We'll just go be actors, we'll just go work, you know, and and kind of, uh, sort of believe in it and then live together.

But the I think the reason why it wasn't a thing, that sort of competition thing that you talk about is because we did a lot of auditioning very early on. For For the Mickey Mouse Club, for example. Uh, I think maybe for some of Jason's early work, um,

Gosling got the Mickey Mouse job.

he did. He was one of, Yes, we did we. Uh, uh, uh, Corey Haim film called Soulman, I remember we both auditioned for it, we did we. We both auditioned for Robin and the the the Clooney, uh, movie, no way. Yeah, we were extras together all the time. Eh? Matt did Mystic Pizza, he had a line in that, I didn't get it. And and always the thing was, we would get our, you know, little act together and practice our scenes and do our workshop.

I mean, nerdy doesn't even Bless begin to describe it. really, And but it really was a genuine thing where we were able to be like, Look, I hope I get the part, but if I don't, I really hope you do. And, you know, for a while, we had this thing where we're like, we'll just split all our money. You know what I mean? oh, you How many times

guys have high voices.

we, like, Uh, oh, you Did you really know, we

say that?

really did, and we really split the money. We No way, put it in a bank account at the time, I Wait, are was making

you talking serious?

the lion's share of the money. Yes,

no way. How old were you?

yes, I am. We had a joint bank account. I I think I was we were. I was 14, Matt was 16, something like Oh, that's that. I think So so much put money in the ATM, awesome. and that was that is like, Okay,

so cute.

what are you gonna get? I saw you made a big withdrawal last weekend.

J- joking as much as you are, but it does show that on a certain level, there is a trust there that you guys th- just trust each other implicitly, that there's just right, that that's o- on a very basic level.

I, like, took for granted that he liked me and rooted for me and wanted me to succeed. We just just didn't. We're lucky enough not to have the friendship of the the whole like. It's not enough that I succeed, all my friends have to fail thing, like, and I, there are people I've wanted to fail. You know what I mean, like, Uh, I can be just as petty and bitter as any other actor, but I loved him and he loved me, and it felt like we would work the scenes together.

And, you know, it, it actually, I think what made us sort of good writers and better actors was that we learned very early on to hear, like, I'm not sure that works, that choice, you know? And you go, okay, let's try something else, you know, and get our facts, our sides, and let's try go with a lower what we got.

voice. Do you ever give that? But that A

t I had to hit puberty and that took about another 20 years. I

So wait, but you? But when you say you grew up, you grew up, uh, uh, together in Boston, right? But you were born or raised in California, like, what's the I was born California? V-

in California. My parents were at a a teaching at a, like, an experimental school outside Berkeley briefly, and then actually my mom and yes, and then I moved back to Boston around two or three. I moved into, uh, um, uh, uh, Central Square in Cambridge. And then Matt moved there from Newton when I was 8 and he was 10, and that's when we met at at the Ba- at the basketball.

And you got a Burger King commercial? That was your very first thing?

Listen, I had done a Burger King commercial. Okay, the the I'm sure you remember the lo- The slogan was, Sometimes you gotta break the rules. And I was a little bit of a rule breaker. Uh, I really you know,

quick I did a I did these guys would love this. I did a McDonald's commercial, uh, one of my 1st things, where I worry I w- I worried about how I was going to impress a girl. And the catchphrase from my guy scene partner was, Don't worry about it. I was like, How am I gonna pay for the date? Don't worry about it, that's my story. So wait, go back to the Burger Holy shit, King thing.

you're gon- we're the fuck are g- you're gonna get you doing? Ben's tired one day, Sean,

got a head of steam going, you're gonna be and you started out of I have so much it.

the job, you'll be without momentum There's no fucking a podcast, one of these punchline. days. out of gas, Jesus, boy. I can't Wait, Sorry, go ahead, Ben. so

Anyway, let me just can I regroup? Do you mind if I just start you just yeah, take go from the all the time start and start

you need.

over, shake it off. wait, And then go ahead? you did, I like, a th- crying,

We so we were. I've established that we were very nerdy and a little weird. We used to have m business lunches in what was called the media cafeteria, which at the time, um, there was a big ESL, uh, um, portion of our public high school, was like 2,600 kids, and that was where the ESL kids. I don't know why, that was where we I. We liked to be surrounded by people who spoke other languages.

I'm not sure what it was, but we maybe we didn't want anyone to actually hear our business lunches because there no business was conducted. Um, but we plotted things, we planned our careers.

But look at you now, look at the business you guys are in now. Art artist equity, yes, Yeah, we, I, yeah,

yeah, we, we i. It is bizarre, like, w- to have gone this far, and definitely a lot of I don't think I would, o- o- would be sane or, eh, or as sane to the extent that I am. Had I not had somebody who was from where I grew up and who was my best friend and who was going through the same thing. So you could cause, I'm sure you guys all know there are these moments in this business where you look around and go, like, is this completely insane?

Yeah, uh,

yeah, every day.

l- I feel as though, you know, I I'm coming unglued. And and having that one, someone to share that perspective. And then, so, as we went on and on, and so finally got to a place where, like with Last Duel, was like, why haven't we? Just? We had so much fun every day on that set, was so much fun. And we're just like, let's just do this, let's just do movies together and with people we like.

And we will be right back. And now, back to the show.

going back to the the the 1st thing that kinda launched, it was. Was it dazed and confused, or was it something before that? And what's the story about Vince Vaughn?

He's asked a two-parter there. You can take them one at a time, or you can ask him to repeat it when he he just I get excited, bless his

I get excited.

heart. I know it, I Sean, know it. Do you ever Sean, I we you write these didn't prep things down?

in the pre-interview, the vent bit. No, but Yeah, I don't know where you're going with that, no, but I heard but I sh- the I heard I do know, that yeah, no, the subject I do know that we that we. I had done a couple of what I was the more experienced. I don't wanna make Matt feel insecure. I had some early experience with professional you're selling acting. I wa-

burgers, you know?

I, well, not only I sell burgers, but I don't know if you know your public television history. I was on a show, Voyage of the Mimi, Nope,

Voyage of the Mummy.

Uh, yeah, uh, science. It was also shown to 6th graders for their science class, because I think, cause it was so gripping. And a young boy and his grandpa, uh, ho- uh, wrenching out a boat to s scientists for for for experiments. And so I would periodically go off and do a little voyage of the Mimi. So Matt was a little threatened by that. And when I got to the high school, he kinda pulled me aside and he said, Listen, man, all right, this is the theater.

It's not about your looks, okay, it's about the work. And I took that very seriously, and I felt that I was hearing something, you know, real, like the words of wisdom from a guy who understood it. I didn't know until that time he felt I'd been entirely bogarting my way through life on, like, good-looking charm and looks, of which there were very few. well, but no, Um,

it sounds like, actually, you came roaring into high school, just killing it

yeah, you're c- you were and taking all crushing it. He and Matt these ladies and Matt, I mean, by the way, I mean, again, no insult to Matt, but it it sounds like he f- he felt threatened by you, Ben. And and I wanna just

I think maybe, I think and then the maybe he was a little

shoulders on the guy.

insecure. The other thing he said to me, he was like, you know, the thing about Hoffman in Salesman? Is you can see the wheels turning, but he wants you to see the wheels turn. Matt Damon 15 years You're bad. old no way Oh my god,

that's hysterical.

Uh, that's a true story. that's fucking amazing. However, That's why he's brilliant, because that guy has been absolutely convinced that and has paid attention to, like, you know, very little else in his free time other than acting since he was a little kid. Doing Wheelock Community College Theater when he was 11 years old. And he's been with absolute conviction that this is what he was gonna do. And he was a lot smarter about it than me.

He understood a lot earlier on. He was like, It's, it's, it's just all about the director, I'm just gonna focus on the director. He was like passing on parts when we were broke, I was like, What are you passing on? You can't pay the gas bill, what do you? But it's like, This is how is this not good enough for you? You

cause he didn't like the

know? director, Yeah, he just didn't feel he didn't, he did, he didn't have anything to offer, you know? Wow, I was like, that's I was. I'm like, I'm doing after school specials about steroid abuse, uh, you're passing on, like movies. Um,

that's pretty great, but I I will say this. You gave him a piece of advice that he has since, uh, uh, paid forward and given, and he led us in on it last year when he came to join us. Which was, apparently, you said to him, if somebody asks you to do something down the road, imagine that the thing, you know, again, all the time, Hey, will you come and do this, uh, six months from now and come and show up at this thing.

Imagine that you would have to do it tomorrow, and then let that be your answer.

yeah, if you don't wanna do it

If you don't wanna do tomorrow, say it tomorrow, say no. yeah, I did

give him. I never thought that was particularly wise. Bananas. I just thought, no, it's the greatest because Matt was constantly ever, saying yes, and then be like, Hey, man, can you call them and tell them I'm sick? And I was like,

Oh yes, yeah, and that's bullshit, It's it's that I amazing. I've told hate it.

I've told minimum 50 people th- that piece of advice as if I came up with it my own. And they have people l- love it and have latched on to it, right? JB, we've talked about it all the time.

I, I, I live it. I did it today. I got asked to do something really, like 3 months from now. That sounds kind of interesting, uh, be kind of fun. But then I thought, Well, actually, if it was on the calendar for tomorrow, would I would I wish that it was canceled? If the answer is yes, pass, pass,

I love that. you know, the thing

about that that I can't completely cosign, like my dirty little secret is, I might pass on everything. Did you think Because I, you know, about I, I you, like, I went, almost never wanna get off the did you think ground.

about the s this show today, about passing on the show?

Oh, I mean, I, I was half-hour late, wasn't I? What are you?

they had to talk you out of it. Um, so, for the guy who likes to do nothing except sit on his couch every day, like I do, I find it interesting that you're actually able to get up and work as hard as I think anybody could possibly work. Um, when it comes to directing, like, that's a really, really all-encompassing job. So are you like me, where it's like, either all or nothing, I'm either working full or out?

I I think you and I have that in common, yes, and I think that, um, I think that part of it is, uh, i it's a little bit like it. It's more sort of social things, like, I'm I feel actually kind of shy, I don't really wanna go say hi to people. It feels a little bit like, Oh, I'm gonna, you know, something's gonna happen that's gonna make me feel awkward. But I I, I love directing movies, and that movie in particular, was the best experience I've had it.

W- in directing is hard and terrifying. And at first, I thought, like, Okay, e- even if I don't know anything about this, I know that I can at least work harder than everybody else. And so I thought, Well, you put in 20 hours a day, and that's what you do. And it made it excruciating, and I got migraines. But, like, to the extent that the that the movies, um, you know, were s w- I was happy with.

I. I thought, well, it must be because I worked 20 hours a day and did nothing else and thought of nothing else. And eventually realized that you don't quite have to do it that way, and that actually it. This movie, which is my f- the favorite movie I've ever made, I love this movie. It It benefits entirely from the writing and acting of Jason and Matt, and Chris and Viola, and, uh, and Chris Messina and Matt Maher.

B- but it was so much fucking fun every day.

well, you, you're it's your fault. I mean, he, he'd, uh, well, we. We don't have to do a whole thing on the kinda set you run and and your talent and everything. But it was, it was, it was, we can. Actually, you know

I think we have to

what I mean to him? actually, do. We I almost have do we have did.

we have 24 hours? Um, it was, uh, Three

it, it was actually incredibly easy, guys. We shot this down the street, um, we shot it in in an in in a business, uh, in a in an office building that, um, you, we're supposed to be in an office building. So they basically just flipped the lights on. Now, that's to take nothing away from Bob Richardson, who is like the best DP in the history of movies. Um, but, uh, it, it w- it was very fast.

I think after wasn't it? After like, seven days, we were already three days ahead Yeah, we, we went, something like that.

we got. I wanted to go quickly, and then you t you and Matt showed up. And like, having not directed Matt, I didn't appreciate. When you're a director, right? You have you have your plans, you have the char- you're worrying about all these other things. Yes, you're worrying about the performances, but I thought, Okay, well, I won't have to worry about the performances, and I'll just worry about all the other sort of bullshit. I th- I'm doing that, I think, is relevant when really, the actors, the are the only thing the audience is paying attention to.

And, like, you know, camera moves and that kind of thing. And Jason and Matt are such pros that no, I mean, it was like a dance to watch these two guys together. They've done it so much and so well. So that as soon as you start to feel the dolly is late, it's not gonna be. All of a sudden, Jason's looking in his pocket for something that might be behind him, and Matt looks behind, and all of a sudden, may he makes maybe a little more mournful choice on that line delivery, cause it's gonna give him an extra half step to the turn to where he knows the Steadicam's gonna come.

R- The two of the guys, I I started feeling like, you're b- you're, like, making it for me. Stop Oh, that part is li- like, doing just so this, it's too fun. and it

I love that.

really was amazing to see. In fact, it got to the point where, um, because Bob's crew and everyone was so good, they started anticipating and trying to do it. And then the guys who were really good and women who were doing it d were like, it started to just speed up. And finally, I was like, J- Matt and Jason, the don't do their job for them, you don't have to do everybody's job. You, yes, I know you're great at it, but just worry about the scene.

Cause it, I think they kinda started having fun with it, like, because they had woners and you'd have to see this, and Matt and Jason would know. Like, you're probably gonna want that, magenta in the background, so, and I thought you'd like the window, and I was like, you son of a Yeah, I did want the window. I didn't think I was that transparent. Um,

did you, uh, did you, uh, do you? Can you remember, uh, having any sort of significant creative negotiation with Matt? Either in the writing process or in the directing process? Like giving him a note that he didn't wanna take, or writing a scene that he that he thought was kinda fine already, or,

Because didn't you have the writing process, like Good Will Hunting, and back in college where you would?

well, they won an Oscar.

You would what? You would vi- you would, uh, talk about it or improv it and we record, record it.

yeah, we recorded it, yeah, on on what were audio cassettes at the time? Kids, those were small brown tape cassettes really. put in devices.

Wait, really, you guys talked out the script,

Yeah, because we never thought of ourselves as formal writers. Uh, we had a great, uh, teacher, drama teacher in high school, who taught us kind of sort of writing, directing, acting, and didn't sort of put them in distinct silos. So he was. We would actually end up making plays, which we later, I later realized, we were act right, direct them in effect. But we just thought we would improvise them and kind of distill them down and find a story.

It's such a great idea.

So that's just how we knew how to do it. So This person Matt and

did you such a such a, uh, favor by doing that, by sort of putting it such all together, the pirate. there's no And not

question. Without Jerry Speck, or Matt, or I, or my brother, or Matt Maher, or Max Casella, or any of the Larson, or all them people that came out of the program, who are who are working, who are terrific. Would would I I think, be working? Cause he was he, he taught us that, and he taught us to, like to not take ourselves seriously, respect other people, but take the work that we were doing incredibly seriously. And that was like that kind of, and there's that, like, great time of life.

When you have the older person who's the mentor who you look up to, in the who's who's doing the thing you wanna do, who says this is meaningful, but you really have to work hard at it. And so we did

Ben, is that that's a so that was a teacher that you guys had at at your public high school high when you went school. Yeah, we, I to? That's

mean, our public high school fucking, just lucked out and got this guy who was a genius. that's And he was amazing, so and he, he was amazing for kids that didn't even end up wanting to be in theater. He was, I could do a a whole thing on him, but n- the truth is, I m I think that's part of why I learned to be collaborative. Is that Matt and I never fought or argued about stuff.

It was always that we and we never got our feelings hurt because most of the ideas are bad. So I'll have a bad idea, he'll have a bad idea, I'll have a bad idea, he'll have a I'll have an idea. What, that's a little bit m maybe better. And then Matt, that kinda key, something in Matt that's mediocre, you know what I mean? And we, so we know we're building from there, and it's never about, and then it just becomes about, like, finding the best thing until both of us feel like it can't be improved.

And and we kinda go like, and and if there is a kind of difference of opinion, it always ends up coming down to who cares more. I'll Yeah, well, go, Matt, I love I don't know, that, you said I really think that, I this is about the and he's like, man, that mo- and I go, I, all right, fine.

If you don't wanna do it more than I wanna do it, then we're not gonna do it, you know? Or if I wanna do it more than you don't wanna do it, we're gonna do it. Like, that's just common. I, uh, Amanda and I try to live by that. There she is, Jennifer, special Hey, ed special guest star. Peter, there she is, hi, You're gonna wanna hear

can't hear us. this, Hi, Hi, hi, Jen. hi,

hi guys.

Hi there, you were just doing very well. We were talking about you in very favorable terms, and so was your husband.

oh, thank you. I was singing That's so kind.

some of your songs back to you, That Oh, sing, please was, y- y- yeah, sing. waiting for the night. Oh,

Oh, my love. It's waiting for tonight,

waiting for tonight. oh, that's the That's amazing.

mic drop right there. but thank you, She crushed it. which is

but thank you. we were lucky that

That is brilliant. both actors knew I really like Thank you for saying that you're into your hi

thing. Yes, of course. by Just looking forward Jennifer. to doing this with you, Oh good, man.

I love you.

there's there's the part that will make the show

by the way, d we, we just bypassed Jason's. I didn't know this term, uh, creative negotiation, Yeah, you know that's great. what he W- way to take the art out of it, man. You fucking find a way every fucking time. just business, my friend, Just well, no, no, make

it's just business. it about you have to negotiate

the work.

Can I use the canal street? How much for the the batteries?

hey, Picasso, how much paint did you use? how many cubic liters of paint did you use? see, that's the beautiful Just take the fucking thing. art out of it, babe, and fuck you,

He, you see, Picasso never had to negotiate with anybody, cause he was just a single thing. Well, the well, what we're doing is like team stuff, right? that's So you've gotta

true, that's true. always negotiate, There is who wants to a lot of do this, who negotiation. I mean, wants to do the lucky thing that.

is when you don't have to negotiate, when you go like, you know, you, you, you do something, you write it, you give it to him, and then Jason sits down and reads the scene and like, I, he made me cry on this, I and I. And and then you feel like a jerk because you feel like that guy who just like, Uh, was it Marty Short or whatever who's to go? Yeah, and then, you know, you just wanna give Oh, you know, everyone like those

it was what's the name of that character? He played, Jimmy Jim Jim, Jimmy Glick Glick. Right, Jimmy Glick. I just right, watched it last was just always night. I I have over

a question, Mr. Affleck, dude, right? Oh, there it goes. It's the so so funniest thing.

so, to wrap up the Matt stuff, we'll, we'll, we'll leave him out of the rest of the interview. Um, uh, but the, uh, cause we've, we've had enough of Matt, right? I mean, Will with you, with your wordle, quordle and squordle every morning. I wanna I mean, it's not

get in on that. fun. And Matt was like, No, you don't, You're not ready. I was like,

you then you don't.

Yeah, I'm not ready. Yeah, no, I,

He said. I, I removed myself Jason dropped out, he from it. Yeah, couldn't take the heat.

no, it's not the heat, it's it's Will likes to tell you how much better his score could have been had he done X, Y or Z. It's anyway, like, Dude, with us early, but wait, wait, I wanted to close the Matt part of it. Uh, just to tell for the and and you could. I know I would love to do a full podcast with you about artist equity and all the sort I would of studio economics

invite me back.

that you're a part of.

They didn't. He told me you didn't wanna do this It would put our one.

audience to sleep. So for the those that that have narcolepsy, do the quick version of generally what the concept is, what you guys are doing versus what exists, um, and why that makes sense for you guys doing this, since you're buddies and you wanna kinda spread that kinda buddy feeling in the process.

It's it's a tough elevator pitch, and I over talk and go on too long, so it's a bad combo.

Sean will cut you off, don't worry,

Basically, what it is is like, over the years, as I'm sure you have, we started to kind of note, like, there's money that gets spent on things that don't end up making the movie any better. And the more money that you spend on what you do, the more obligation you have, the sort of more risk there is. And the less likely people are to do things that, you know, you consider more interesting. They wanna be more s uh, conventional.

And then, um, mm, I looked around and and it, I just as a director, started to really understand and value the people on the crew who made such a significant difference to the quality of what you're doing. Both in terms of speed and in terms of the environment and the way in which you're able to perform. But I'm a big believer that that the performance really ultimately is what what draws people in and the performance and the writing.

And so we, uh, came up with this idea, never thinking anyone would ever actually fund us, uh, to do a movie studio that was predicated on, um, 2 things, basically, i allowing the crew and the the artist, being the writer, I mean, and I consider the crew the artists, which is the whole group, actors, directors, writers, so on, as well as cinematographers, sound mixers. Everybody who who collectively create the value in in what we're doing to benefit from the upside of it in a really meaningful, significant way, but also to be responsible for it.

In other words, listen, if it goes over, you're gonna get less, if it comes in under, you're gonna do better. But all of us have to make it good, otherwise we're not gonna get anything. And sort of treat people like grown-ups, believe they can be accountable, and also believe that, you know when, be because incentives have not historically been aligned between the people financing movies traditionally and and the people making them always. And so without going into too great a detail, the idea was like, let and let's separate this out from, like, what is the value of a of a movie?

Well, usually they'll use comps, like, Well, what's the budget? and what did you make on your last movie? And, uh, and especially now, cause there's no back end and no gross. That's sort of it, right? Well, I've always felt that was akin to to going into the Apple Store and saying, I'll tell you how much I give you for the iPhone when you tell me how much you paid the guy that put it together. But that's, you know, you don't, that's not how it works, right?

So why does it have to work in the other way? So so w- by being agnostic as a a financier and producer, this studio. And we had to then, you know, hire all the business affairs and legal and physical production and so on, so that we could be an entity significant enough to take on the entire creative responsibility of developing, producing, shooting and delivering the movie. And in exchange, we got to say, Look, this is what it's gonna cost.

It won't cost a dime more than that, if it goes over, we pay for it. But you have to sort we're gonna be the ones who take on the burden, the role of saying we're gonna deliver something good. If it's terrible, it's our fault. Um, and but you're gonna sort of, um, put your trust in us to be able to do this. I'm sure whatever partners that we we work with, they're excellent, brilliant people who distributing and marketing movies.

We don't do that. Uh, we don't wanna do very many movies, but we wanna just really make good movies with people we like, I love like, and that. that's it. And and we think you should be people should be paid more for for for what they, but you're you know,

basically taking on the financial risk by by funding the production effectively. And then you're saying, we don't need y- you don't get the leverage financier, uh, by giving us the money to make it, assuming that we don't have it to make it, we actually do. We're gonna spend the money to make it, and we're basically coming to you and saying, we'd like to sell you this product. We're gonna take care of the wholesale part. Here's the retail price.

Who wants to buy it? Yeah, that's makes a lot of sense.

that's what he, that's what he just said, he just I'm tryin, said that.

I'm trying to f- see if my brain heard it right.

We'll be right back. And back to the show.

So now, but then once you have finished the completion of a film, you now have to enter into a whole nother thing. Cause you're you're going out there to distributors. Yeah, so are you working with all different distributors, uh, all different Yeah, I sh- sizes?

mean, the business is like, there's all sorts. It's changing a lot. You have streamers, you have, you know, companies are theatrical and streaming, and so, and that's nobody's quite figured that out yet. My feeling is people are watching things and interested in them, and that's gonna be ongoing. How they figure out the economics of where they place value on it, you know, there. If we s keep our focus to a few things and make the make sh- try to make them really good.

And also, I really was felt like, you know, interesting, original dramas, comedies, sort of ideas, were starting to fall away from the theatrical world. It was kinda like, Nah, that's not in movie theaters. And so with this movie, and this movie's themes are kind of congruent with with the ideas and the philosophy of this business. Like, w- what are the people worth, and how should they be compensated? And isn't this, the story itself, I think, is interesting, meaningful, and I want people to go see movies like this again,

yeah, I, I, I watch watching your trailer, I thought the that very thing. The 1st time I saw it, I thought, nobody gets to make movies like this anymore. Because we've lived in a in a world where and everybody has benefited and and participated to a certain degree in these sort of, whatever you called them, these temples or these these, um,

including me.

yeah, no, that's what I mean. Everybody, all of us, have benefited in certain ways. However, what happened was the result of that is is that these other kinds of movies that you're talking about, Without special effects, uh, without special effects, and that are story driven and that Well, are character you're a hair, driven. but beside that, Yeah, ex- yeah, uh, tho- those things don't really, tho- those kind of movies don't really exist as much anymore. not in And I thought, the theaters, and Wow, not in this one's the theaters.

one of the 3,000 screens,

yeah, well, part of the problem is fucking Ozark, because Yeah, but yeah, yeah, it used to be that, you know, you to put on a movie, you're competing, you know, like Law and Order or whatever. Magnum, you know what I mean? You had 11 black and white, and you could watch Simon and Simon, or you could go see, like, you that's know, Murder on at 1600. And Oh my gosh, now you've got Succession and Ozark and really good fucking stuff.

Where, uh, people at home, know, you know what, I can pause, I can watch tomorrow. That's made it very difficult. but it looks like And s,

they're approaching a good combo where you're getting a you're getting a nice window of time in the in the in the brick and mortar theaters. You can see it on a big screen if you want, or you can wait. What is it? I think it's now basically 6 weeks before it'll be at your home, as opposed to the old method was like 3 months. And it Yeah, I'm was

really grateful. Amazon, the 1st time, they're really going for the we're gonna do a theatrical traditional, you know, 3,500 screens out in the theaters. Go see it, don't, you can't, like, wait to see it for free, like, like, not sort of upstaging it with a sub- a very soon impending free version at home. this is Amazon, But Amazon, yeah, and they really are are are taking a flyer on this. And I really, I mean, I hope it works, honestly, for, obviously for the movie, but also so that we can do it again.

And the reason why, going back to that model, the one thing that we did, we do ask is that, like the the Hollywood model is kinda like, I get paid in failure, right? Like, I still have the money, I spent it, but, like, I made money on Jeebie, I didn't have to give it back. You know what I mean, like, everyone else went broke and I got a car, you know? So this is like, we're not gonna get paid here, we're just gonna spend what it costs to make the movie itself, and we're all gonna show up and invest our time and energy.

And if it works, and if it's successful, and if it's financially successful, you'll get paid. Whether you're the cinematographer, whether you're the writer, director, much more otherwise than you would have. But the relationship between how you're compensated and how much it connects to audiences is really direct. Versus just like, Hey, man, you know, I don't get out of bed for less than whatever. And and that's what I kind of, you know, that that and such a nice thing to not have that vibe, you know, where the people who are doing it just wanna be there.

And I think this this film's got a real good chance of of hitting that sort of zeitgeist thing. Only be well for 2 reasons. Number 1, it's a story we all think we know, but we don't. The whole story about how and why Nike got into business with Michael Jordan, when Michael Jordan entered the NBA. And when the whole start of this sneaker, this this whole Air Jordan thing. Like, it's an incredible American business story that no one really knows how it, how it went together.

And this this movie explains it, and you're releasing it during March Madness, which I think is genius.

1st of all, it's gre- I I heard it's I hear it's great from a a few different people who've seen it. Uh, 2 of them are in the movie, um, but they say it's great.

Believe them.

And, uh, and uh, uh,

You, you can come by the house and watch it anytime, by the way. I told I w- I Jason, he came wanna go by, you know,

see it.

cause I told Jason 2 or He did 3 times, not. Please ask him to. He Did not came you, watch, I I think you broke mean, I'm, I up during mean, I've,

that, that part of the the phone yeah, I'm desperate call.

to see it, and and, uh, I think Bradley saw it. Anyway, whatever it is, I'm desperate to see it. I think it sounds amazing. And

Bradley. Won't let me see his movie until it's mixed, it's really so I am That movie's good, that movie's great. I heard

really good.

his, I heard I read the script, and I and I remember saying to him like, This is, you know, this is the movie We're talking to call about maestro, dude. This is Dude, that's, dude, maestro, brilliant.

yeah, incredible.

And the the test, it's amazing. He looked it's fucking amazing.

amazing. Talk about movies that nobody It's the best script makes.

I've ever read. That that

It's really, really good. And if but I was gonna say, for your movie, what's great is because it is, like, as Jason says, it does tell the story and it's so great. And, you know, people like Jason, this is where they learn stuff is from the movies, cause they've never r- read a book before.

who has no life experience,

Right? They have no life experience, so but I f- truly, everybody says, and even Jason says this, which you never say. You didn't even you weren't talking about yourself about how much you love the movie. I can say that he legitimately loves it, so it's I'm very excited to see it. Now, let's talk about Batman, let's talk about the real thing that everybody well, I want is sitting on. can I, can We gotta I jump in talk let's get down before I a

forget? to business. Hey, Sean,

no. Because the only time we r- we really hung out was when we did that thing with Kimmel about the, uh, batman. And then I stuck my head in as Lego Batman and you guys all laughed at me. Um, I thought we do

it was funny.

have 2 Batmans on the podcast, Sean.

I know that's kinda cool,

It's very cool.

1 real and 1, uh, yeah, cartoon.

but I saw the trailer for the flash and everybody was like freaking out when you came on the screen.

You know what? That movie's good,

I hear it's amazing. that movie's really

It looks good. good. I hear that movie's They they made fucking great. it good, Yeah, I love that.

and it's my best shit I've done. Is I finally figured out how to play the guy correctly?

no, really.

I got it. I was

For real?

like, hold on, am I is that I, I quit, I know I quit, and I know I came back to it, but y- I got it now. It's like, you know, when you do the audition and you're on your way home and you're like, No,

Wait, what was the moment? What, what, how did? why did the why did the penny drop? What, what happened?

I I mean, I don't wanna give a spoiler, but it was a it was a scene where I got I get caught, I get saved by Wonder Woman, uh, during a a conflagration with some, some, some bad guys. And she saves me by, um, I mean, I'm sure I'm g- like the spoiler, you know, DC. Assassins, she sh- or whatever you get, she saves me, but the

you in some way.

she saves me with the lasso of truth. And so what happens is that Batman, um, divulges, you know, some of his real feelings about, um, his life and his work. And, uh,

And it helped you s and it helped you see the character, and now you wanted another chance to play it.

a, and I was like, Wait a minute, I got it. Am I still wait? Can I guys go,

are we still rolling? can I Can we write another scene?

story? Am I fucking? By, by the

I love that.

way, Ben, one one time I remember years ago, and I asked him about it. Uh, I remember Alec Baldwin telling saying in an interview that he was driving home from Knotts land when he was on Knotts landing. And and like, on a Friday night and just going like, Oh, fuck, that's how you do the scene. And he's like, from that moment on, he made a deal with himself that he would never leave it, that he would always figure out the scene while he was there, and it always stuck with me, especially cause it was Knotts landing.

It's so funny. Alex told me a similar story, but totally different. Is that The guy is, Yeah, he loves this metaphor. He's like, You know why? I'm a good actor, but not a great actor. And I was like, Uh, no, Alec, and I don't wanna answer that. Uh-huh. It was like, because I was playing S Kowalski on Broadway, and I, uh, uh, the door. He was supposed to leave the screen door, and I guess in some and and the screen door wouldn't open, and he was exiting it, wouldn't open.

I shook it once, and I shook it twice, and it wouldn't open. And so I stepped around it. And right then, right then, I realized, What would Brando do? He woulda kicked it down,

He woulda kicked it down.

and I was like, So, I'll kick it down. And I kicked it down, but just he's, he's very focused on that, like, moment after thing.

Dude, that's hilarious.

That is. I wanna ask you about you won 2 Academy Awards, Good Will Hunting and Argo, Thank you. I was you won them.

wondering if we were gonna get into horror, I know but then you went what you did, I there. It was gonna know be Jason Bateman your publicist show.

is like, all over me about that. I was like, Okay, got it. Uh, hello,

texting, texting, texting.

yeah, no, but I wanna talk to you about Argo because you wrote me one of the funniest emails, which I wanna read right now. And oh my we can cut god, it if you want, but it's really funny anyway. Victor Garber, who's a friend of ours, right? there's a He was staying wonderful scene in my guest house where here while you were filming Argo it's funny, he - 3 houses

said, you were in his guest house, down. but go ahead.

What's that?

He said, you were in his guest house, but go ahead.

whatever, we swap. Uh, we share, like you share a bank account, we share a guest house. So, um,

I wouldn't wanna still share a bank account with Matt. All of a sudden, the deal's over after Bourne, you know?

but but you shot Argo 3 houses down from me, and I would walk over in my pajamas and sit down and watch you direct, and it was super, super fun. And then, um, then you won the Oscar, and I was there, uh, at the Oscars. And I wrote an email to you and it's I said, I'm so proud of him, so thrilled for you. I still, and then all the other que- uh, sentence that said? Question marks?

I said, I still haven't seen it, and I probably won't get to it. I'll probably have to Netflix it, and someone will have to read the subtitles to me, but I'm sure I'll love it. Like everyone in Iran says they do. And then I said, I loved your speech, blah, blah, blah, and you wrote back. I saw your little sweet face when I was standing up there accepting my Oscar in the middle of the greatest triumph of my professional life.

I thought, I have got to tell Sean to go tanning. I

You should.

fucking so when I was doing all this research for you today, like all this stuff, I found that old I was like, I'm gonna look at old emails. I laughed out loud, and then you wrote Haven't me another one.

taken me up on it. Still

Still pasty.

No, not at all. I'm, it's I'm translucent.

So good.

Oh, Benjamin, this has been amazing, way too much of is it your time.

is it over? They told they told me, it's 2 hours, I said, Oh, only an hour for me. It's it's 2 the shortest. hours, You don't usually do it 2 hours. just feels Oh, Pete, Davidson, like we used to go

3, we used to go I am a big 3.

fan. I gotta tell you guys, I love the Mark Maron show. You are wonderful. Oh, I'm Oh, shit, sorry, It's a drama you show.

shit, oh shit, oh shit,

no. The truth is, you guys are, you guys are, uh, do a great job. You manage to be very interesting to listen to, and yet very little of substance is ever said. we distract

you with all the constant noise, that's And yet all it is.

it feels like, uh, kind of wonderful. I enjoy it. It's an honor and a pleasure to be on the show. Thank you for having Well, likewise, You as me. Honest well. to God, you are fucking amazing in the movie. From the 1st time I met you on the day of smoking aces, when I walked into that scene and you did the monologue about about congenital alcoholism and herpes in a small penis. I have never you cannot if you go back and watch that dude, that's movie.

There is not from the not a shot of movie, me where I'm Yeah, that's not not laughing. that's

from the movie.

not from the movie, dude. He was just telling somebody

yeah, we were just hanging else's. out. Then, remember?

They put it in the movie. It was I was like, this guy is a genius, a genius, and I have never forgotten it. And then Joe Carnahan it's just been has fault, you know, a pleasure

he wrote a great scene and directed g- to a great movie. work with you. No, Very nice

no, your fault. man, very nice Genius. Love Joe, man. great in that, great in extract. I, I have loved it. It's been We had my pleasure.

fun on X track.

I I think you're a genius. Yeah, you are a I do, I genius. think, uh, all that you've My mother thinks done. that word's overused, Yeah, it and she's usually is, yeah, She's right, Because she hears she's probably right,

it a lot about her sons.

but we're really happy. Uh, I, I will say this. I'm so happy that you're directing movies and you're making movies like this and that you're just continue to do fucking great stuff. yeah, I can't And I'm a fan

wait to see it. I love and

it. This is all I wanna do.

You do wanna direct more than act, right? Uh, you love it, I I you're so e- you know, good at it,

I started really loving acting, finally, for real, when I was like, I don't wanna do this anymore. I wanna just direct movies. This is, I'm done with this. I, I don't care. I just like directing. And then I was kinda like, Well, I'm already here, and I, you know, you know,

Do em both, right? Act in the movies and direct, yeah,

and then I just let go. And I remember Sydney Pollack, um, once saying, when we did, he was a director and an actor, and I. We did a movie called Changing Lanes 20, some years ago. And he said to me, You know why I'm a good actor? I was like, No, no, no, Sydney, I know, cause I don't give a shit. I was like, I didn't understand at the time, but I I know what he's getting at now.

It's just that so much of it just has to do with letting go and being relaxed and trying things and not sweating what people are gonna think. And, you know, you know, trying the take that at the time, Jason and Matt make fun of you for, but later on works in the movie, we know what we're talking about.

wait, really? Wait, which one was

It was the take where I where I really wanted to play my part, and I interrupted Matt and made him wait a second. And you were like, Maybe too big, maybe that's too big.

I said that? Oh, oh,

No, I, I, uh, believe

and it's for the movie.

me. Matt was right out in front of me. He was like, you can't do that, hold on, hold on. Uh, no, I'm kidding, Oh, wait you guys

a second. were Oh wait, is this the one with the blaster glasses and the and the and the and the and the jogging outfit,

oh, no, you were all unequivocal about that, and that didn't make. That was too big. dude? It's on the This

poster. What do you mean? It didn't make the movie? You're on the poster in your in your phaser glasses and your and your jumpsuit, that is historically right? accurate, that I get it. is taken No one's gonna know from historical that, though. They're just gonna be footage. like, Oh,

Well, I'm trying to promote boy, it. why? that That's what I'm here. The whole point was to get to the fact that that is not made up. That is the

it's so good.

clothes that were worn.

And his purple, his purple Porsche, and his, He had a purple uh,

Porsche that said, Nike Man, Yeah,

this is Phil Knight, listener, ooh, wow, uh, the the, uh, the guy who created Nike, um, Phil I can't wait Knight, and to see it. then it's fun. And Phil Knight.

and I do. Once I started doing it and doing people I I really loved, and it's true, I would I. I love directing in a in a different way, but acting has become really fun. Tender Bar was really fun. Last Duel was really fun. The way back was really fun, weirdly, for a movie about a person whose child dies and i is alcohol You were awesome it. It was

in that.

like it become joyful because I started developing my own criterion and stopped kind of making it about, like, you know, who As Will likes me?

says, it's a sexy indifference, right? Will

I don't say that. No,

I I'm going with overweight indifference. Indifference is attractive, well, whatever you're doing, though. Yeah,

please keep doing it, man. Uh, just such a fan. You're s. You're so great at what you do, and you always have been, and, uh, just keep thank you very much, being.

and I'm gonna hold you guys to it. Um, since you're all in the next one for free, thank you. Oh my god, Yeah, I told you the model. no, yeah, we'll yes, thank do it for free, you. I

we'll just do it for the art. guess Um, you're Thank you, I appreciate amazing for that. doing this.

I'm too handsome for film. Uh,

W- will you let me into the fucking octurtle battle? And or do I have my JVs? Still tell, tell Matt here it is. Yeah, one, and give my your my age, your number. Yeah, no,

Well, okay, great. I'm, Does Matt on the invite? He's He he's the commissioner? So did he really Well, he was

Ke- did he really keep you out? I'll I'll I'll talk to

Lucked me out. Him. I'll talk Did well,

To him.

Not not even like me, he was like, Maybe maybe keep working. You know, he didn't think I was that great. Like, out of Try the Love for the game.

Crossword. Yeah.

He finally I tell him this, this is insane. He finally won today for the first time in, like, 6 weeks, and he was ecstatic.

Really?

Yeah. Yeah, he was having a tough time.

But like I said, once I found out that he's in the low 50s, now I I maybe I'm wondering if there is kind of an intramural league that I can be because that Is like There's

A feeling Ben's gonna wax all you guys.

Yeah, it won't take you long. Believe me. You're a sharp guy. It will not take you long to fucking make us all look like fools.

I'm starting to lose it, as I said, You are y'all young. You know? Ginkgo. Ginkgo. Thanks, guys. I have a question Thank you.

about Batman - oh, sorry,

Sure, sure, go ahead. Benjamin. No, uh Sure. Yeah.

No, that's okay.

No, no, feel free. Go ahead. Call I I know that. Uh, Ben, What what do we

We love you. Thank you for

Thank you, Ben.

Doing this.

Yeah, I love you, Cal. Um, very, very Seriously, guys, Jason

Has my number, and you guys honestly, God, like, the movie is here, sitting here in in the on the projector. And if you ever wanna come at any point, even if I'm not here, just, like, set it up, ring the bell, come watch the movie. You probably don't give a shit, and you're gonna end up, you know, watching It anyway.

They do, and you live about 3 blocks from Well. So someone Yeah. Has no excuse. Oh, Yeah, we'll we'll walk Shit. Over. By the way, I

Love to.

Well, we will cut this, but I love the new house. Thank you. Yeah, the Yeah. You know what to Rentals not

Cut that.

Too fucking shabby, is that is that the one you're talking about, Sean?

No, the one that they just The one I'm at Purchased.

Sean is keeping up with some of Shit. Our celebrity journalists.

Yeah. No, no, no, I have a I have a real estate agent who's knows Oh, really? Uh, but, uh, yeah, and

The rentals. I saw I saw God we're The rentals I saw it

Are awesome.

Under construction, and I was like, This is amazing. So, I I'd love to see when it's done.

You are the 1st to be invited.

No, we heard it, we got it recorded. Um, thank Thank You, buddy.

You, Benjamin. We love you, Thanks for the rest Benjamin. I I love

Of your night.

You all. Thank you very much. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay.

Thank you.

Thanks, man. Bye, bud. Bye. Well, that guy, I F- fucking Mean Wadage, Sean. That See, we so so Was just

When we so when we were talking Big star About

Wadage. I mean, we had we had Damon on tour, and that's fine, that was fine, but then we had Ben Affleck at just coming in with a fucking wadage,

I know.

And you're like, Well, that's that's the

Now, that's a star. Vision. That's Through

A star.

The yeah, through outer space, Yeah, through Yeah.

Outer now, like, remember fucking Macho Man in, like, a fucking hoodie, and he fucking Yeah, so You you know Yeah, let's What I mean?

Just get through the interview, Then just get And then

Through the thing, and then Ben shows up, and he's he's Talented and

What a star. He's smart as fuck

He's prepared.

And he's prepared.

Broad shoulders on him. His hair is gorgeous. Yeah. Hang He's gonna tell

On a second. You your answers Jason, Jason, Before you ask Jason, let me see 'Em. Your hands real quick. I wanna See your hands

You're right.

While you're talking.

It's really dark where you are.

Um, no, all jokes aside, wow, is uh, that was awesome.

Yeah, and when I was doing, like, the research, you know, learning about him and stuff and about his past and whatever, I was like and then you go through his credits, you're just like, Wow. You forget, like, Wow, bang, Huge. Bang, bang, hit after hit after hit after hit. Yeah. Big He's been so Hits.

Relevant, uh, and talented and successful for so long, and I feel like he's only halfway done. Yeah, and O- oh, I think Yeah.

I don't know if this is true. Does anybody know it didn't he hasn't he played Batman more than any other actor?

I'll bet.

I think that that might be I think you might be right.

Yeah, I think so. He played It 5 times, I think.

Really? That's just him just

I'm I I'm so happy for him. Um, and Th- this movie, he just he crushes it, and Matt and him did a great job writing a lotta I can't The stuff, too. Wait to see And He's such It. I can't wait A natural

To see it.

As a director, I mean, it's good, Jason, it's kinda what you talk about when you spend all that time you know doing and he and you've got a head on your shoulders, and you spend all that time on set and in that environment,

Yeah, you gotta absorb something.

You absorb some, and you can kind of apply it, and he had you have done it, and he has done it, uh, and and he's made so many great films, you know, as you said, uh, um SEAN. Sean. Yeah, Sean. No, no, no, SEAN. I know, but what was the what what the one about, uh, around the hostages, ARGO. Um, Argo? Argo. So Argo,

Argo, see that?

The Town is amazing as well, that's another great film that he directed,

Yes, The Town. But he's Yeah, I love that movie.

Really, really good. Yeah, see, that's The the

What I'm saying. Cameos in I didn't even Get a chance to talk about The Town, that was so good. I know. Well,

'Cause you had you were asking, you know, you had too many questions about, like, out of left field.

He just texted me, I hate Sean. Oh, well, he spelled It S-H-A-W-N, but, um, the hate is spelled correct. Way. No, that's not true. Um, no, he's, uh, he's he's he's the guy, my god. What an interesting life. I'd like to read his book. I wanna read his book. I wanna read Downey's book. Um

Just a book. Any book would I guess,

Be great. Right? Would be amazing It's top

At this point.

To bottom, left to right, Yeah, as Right? Long as the Yeah.

As long as the book has a

Uh, hm. Bye. My man

Ding, send her turn. Those pages are bound. That works.

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