Dominique Wilkins: The Mindset That Made the Human Highlight Film

Born in France, raised in Baltimore, left home at 16 with a greyhound ticket and no plan. Got discovered on a playground the next day. Went on to become the human highlight film, one of the most feared scores in NBA. history. A Hall of Famer who put 47 points on Larry Bird in Game six. The world saw the dunks.

It's so crazy to me that you are not a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. I'm not asking a comment on that. It's crazy.

Well, I'm gonna comment on it for you. Okay, crazy, I'm gonna comment,

you know what I mean,

I think it was Luda. crazy. I think it was Ludacris. Like this is Yeah, bad the golden man,

era of the NBA. Period. Tom

you don't get no arguments out of me. In my 1st eight games, I played against probably nine Hall of Famers at my position. I remember saying to myself, Man, if it's gonna be like this every night, I don't know if I'm gonna make it, you know? But I had to quickly say, but I'm gonna let them know they playing against a guard too.

How come you weren't bitter, you weren't angry?

Don't make excuses, don't blame people, because at the end of the day, it's up to you what you do.

This is the story behind the legend, Dominique Wilkins.

So we have an extraordinary, masterful guest today, Mr. Dominique Wilkins, NBA Hall of Famer, a master, vice president, basketball operations. Currently Atlanta Hawks analyst, Mr. Wilkins, welcome to the show. to see you, And nice to see you. nice to see you, Sean Callagy on the Sean, podcast. Thanks for having nice to nice me. to meet you. Yeah, So we chatted for a moment, um, ago, and you started out, uh, as playing baseball, uh, so tell tell me you know, about

growing up in Baltimore, Maryland, where I grew up at, you know, had a lot of asphalt, not a lot of grass to play on. But the one field we had was a baseball field across the street from my house. So all the younger kids started out in baseball and I. I went from baseball actually and went to track, and I didn't play organized basketball to 10th grade.

Wow, okay? And so what position in baseball and what'd you do in track?

I was, you know, I played center field, I played 2nd base, 3rd base, you know, I played multiple positions. And I was a pretty good baseball player. But after I got taller, strike zone got longer, you know, so, but I. I grew a love of basketball because of the Baltimore Bullets.

Did anybody ever hit the ball over your head in center field, like, who was getting the ball over Well, you, your head? Cause you're not, I well, mean, obviously you're so athletic, but you're also, were you fast? I presume I, I was, you were fast.

I was very fast, I was very fa, and you know again, you know, I don't know if I loved baseball that much, even though I played, um, because I love track and field more. And I was always fast. I and what still hold

did you? my high school What

record in the quarter mile

in the quarter mile? to this day, Yeah, okay,

I still have that record. So I was always into track and field high jump, triple jump, you know, anchor in the mile relay and so on. I wasn't a bad track track.

I. I would imagine that you could have played anything and been successful. So, and you said, the bullets, and then, yeah, how does basketball emerge for you?

well, it, it was the Baltimore Bullets. And again, everybody played either baseball or played basketball in my neighborhood, and so we used to sneak into Baltimore Bullets games. When we were kids, you know, we got caught by Wes Unseld one time. He said, You kids can't, so can't sneak in. And I remember one time he gave us tickets to come to the game so we didn't have to sneak in. And that's when I developed a serious love for the game of basketball.

yeah, and and what was that journey like? So, sophomore year of high school, you come in, were man, were you already instantly a high performer as soon as you took it up, or what was the progression?

you know what? Growing up in Baltimore, Baltimore was a very rough city and I left home when I was 16. Because, you know, it was just I. I was trying to get out of the environment we lived in. And I remember I told my mom when I turned 16, I'm leaving, and I remember her saying, Where you going? I said, I'm gonna go to North Carolina, hopefully find a career in basketball. And I got discovered on the playground the next day after getting off a greyhound bus.

And an older gentleman said, Hey, son, you remember? I'm like, I'm not sure, he said. Where you going? I leave it. I'm not, I'm not sure. And he said, Come go with me. Winchell's home, show me his house, show me a kitchen, bedroom, and say, you can have all this. The only trade off is you have to play for my high school team. He was a high school coach. Wow, and that's where it started for me, and we went And how?

And to.

how did he treat you from? Like,

He treated me like I was his son. And that team went 76 and one in three years. And the state of North Carolina, back to back state champs. but that? But So it was but you don't a lot of fun.

remember that, and it doesn't matter much to you anymore, does it? I'm kidding, I'm totally

no, not really. I mean, you know, it was just something we did, I'm Jo, yeah, so you know? I. I had the So

privilege of, um, you know, not the athlete you are. But folks that know I was a baseball, uh, player, wrestler and a football player in high school. And we just went for my freshman high school football coach's birthday. So I just want you to know that. I fully appreciate the imprint that high school athletic championships can have, and it's so amazing to hear that in you and that you did that as a 76. you know, And don't tell Tom Brady if you talk to him.

He was the quarterback, backup quarterback at a winless high school freshman football team. He wasn't like you going 76 and and one high school.

he became pretty good, though, I'll

We can get it right

tell you that.

from there, we can get it right from there. And we talked about that his story. Yeah, so

but you know what? It's just certain journeys you go through in life that makes you who you are. And I think those struggles that I went through early in my life and people always telling me you would never be anything. It was just fuel for me to prove them wrong. And so

but how come you? So so many kids, and, you know, without going into all the details of what made you want to leave home at 16? But so many kids that are in an environment that isn't fully supportive in the way they want it to be, go a completely different direction. So, like, what made you go up instead of going down?

Well, I started talking about my mom. 1st of all, my mom raised eight kids by herself and my father was military. But the war messed him up

Cause you were born in France, right?

and I was born in France, yeah, and then we moved to Maryland. But he, you know, he was not the same person. So I, I don't put a lot of blame on him because he went through the war. And so she raised those eight kids by Yeah, and this herself. It was very

was that's right. tough. Can I? Can I thank you for your dad's service Oh, thank you, as well, I appreciate and and the sacrifices

it, you know, I appreciate that means it.

we. We do a lot of things in the veteran space. And I'm really present that, and as you are, that the sacrifices people make in the military some years, go far beyond. 30 some. Yeah, You know, just what happens, surviving the military, but sometimes there's generational effects like that. And I'm very sorry, and I thank you for being you and for your father's service and your sacrifices.

yeah, you know. And I said I loved my father to the day he passed, because I understood the struggle he went through. You know, over almost 30 years of military service, you know, that's a long time, but it kind of helped mold me because actually, it's the neighborhood who helped raise me along with my mom. Matter of fact, I had a playground legend taught me how to play basketball when I was twelve. I had to meet him at the Boys Club, cause back then it wasn't a boys and girls club, it was just a boys club.

And he said, Come here every day, I'm gonna teach you how to play this game and you're gonna owe me. And I didn't know what that meant. He said. The only thing I want you to give to someone else when I'm about to give to you. So that's what gave me the courage, the encouragement, to leave home when I was 16. Well, congratulations. So you Thank you.

go 76 and one in high school, I guess things are going well, and what happens from there?

Well, they went from loving me to hating me, you know, because back then, in the state of North Carolina, if you a great player in the state of North Carolina, you don't leave the ACC. It was just against the rules, almost, and I was the 1st one to do that, great player to do that out of North Carolina. I went to Georgia. When I signed with Georgia, they went from loving me to hating me. And I got death threats, cross burning in my yard.

It was a bad situation and when I left there, I didn't go back for 30 years. Oh my god, 30 years, and the only reason I went back. The mayor of that town drove from Washington, North Carolina, to Atlanta to view my film, my life story. And I said to myself, I said, if he can do that, the mayor of that town can drive by himself, I can go back. And I was kind of reluctant, but I went back.

I remember coming, driving down the road and I see all these people on the road. I mean, I was nervous, right? I didn't realize it was a parade for me that he kind of orchestrated. So that's still a part of your history, so you have to at some point go back.

he seems so, um, honorable, so respectful. And I know you've been asked a million times. And I'm gonna just fast forward, just cause it feels like the right spot. Um, I think it is. And I'm not asking you to comment, I'm not asking you the question, I'm gonna go ask you. It's so crazy to me that you are not a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. I'm not asking a comment on that. It's crazy. well, I'm gonna comment But

on it for you. okay, crazy, I'm gonna comment crazy, if you I think

got to say what it

it was Luda. I think crazy, it was Ludacris. Yeah, but how? Thank bad man, you you know, but

and how. And you were so gracious for the years in between that 1st ballot and when you appropriately were in the Hall of Fame. And just the way you're talking about your dad, and the way you're talking about, you know, North Carolina and a cross burnt on your lawn, like, how did you maintain the grace? Like, where'd that come yeah, but you from? Yeah,

know what, I've been hit with stumbling blocks my whole career. From when I was a kid to. I went to high school, to. I went to college, I went to the pros. And when I, you know, got recognized in the Hall of Fame. At the time, I let all votes and I got the call and they said, Hey, we never given a call like this. But we're putting all coaches in this year, no players. I'm like, Wow, but I think the way it was mapped out, they wanted myself and Charles Barkley to go in together that year.

But, you know, I look back on things, man. I've always been able to overcome adversity, you know, disappointment, and so I tell people like this, the people that know me best know what I bring, and they know what I meant to the game, and they know my heart and my drive. So long. My peers know it doesn't matter what other people think, because they know what I did throughout my career. But the one thing I and you, you, you touched on this about kids, uh, especially the youth.

Today, we gotta stop youth from being a product of an environment as excuse to fail. You know, if you believe in something strong enough, you have the ability, if you have the ability and you put the attitude and the the respect that you're given. If you put all that together, you can accomplish anything you want. But you got to believe. I can't believe in you more than you believe in yourself. And so I tell my sons, I tell my daughters, you got to believe in what you want to be.

Because if you don't believe it, I can't, I can't help you, I can only guide you, but I can't help you get there.

and may I ask, though, so you know, you? You have the greatest slam dunk contest in history, and you've been that champion. People agree, the greatest above the rim player ever, the human highlight film, right? And then you're in Chicago, and I mean, Michael Jordan even tells you, I think the way the story goes, that you beat him right and then the judges. So it seems like, again, you had so many different moments, you know, Larry Bird trash, you know, you're, you know, scoring.

Was it 47,

I had 40, I think I had 47 in a game. Yeah, yeah,

game seven? So there's all these moments where you are overcoming and overcoming, overcoming, and then, you know, you have the Larry Bird trash talking. You have the weird scoring at the at the slam dunk contest. And you have leaving home at 16 because maybe the environment, not, maybe the environment's not what you need it to be. But really, friend, anybody out there, I'm, I'm in shock, really like, I, you know, you get to know people, you, you hear people talk from afar, but you, you just seem so loving, you seem so caring, you seem obviously you're a champion, like you're a master, right?

How did? How come you weren't bitter, you weren't angry? How could? So a lot of folks that are that, you know, in in sports and business, that you were slighted at times, you know for, yeah, what would you tell people about

you know what?

this?

The one thing I would say and when? When my dad was in my life, a short time in his life, the one thing he told me, he said, a man stand on his own 2 ft. Don't make excuses, don't blame people about what you don't have, what you do have. I say, because at the end of the day, it's up to you what you do. And that stuck with me my whole life, and especially when I was young.

Because I wanted to treat people like I want to be treated. I've always believed in that, and it's not. Basketball was a stepping stone to do something bigger than myself, you know, to give back what I've learned and what I can teach. I think we have a social responsibility to do that, and so I don't. I don't look at just myself, you know? And that's why my wife and I, we involved in so many different charitable things that we believe in, because we live it.

We have kids who have some of the same issues, and some of those issues that people often have a problem with, there's no. How to, you know, interact with others, to find a solution. But I've always loved people my whole life, and so it's all about the people. Because, you know, people always ask me, they said, why you never tra travel around with security? I'm like, why? I said, because I want people to know that I'm just as human as they are.

Yeah, I might do things in my life that brings excitement, but I'm just an ordinary guy and so I've never been an egotistical guy. Only time I had attitude is when I was between those lines and you had to be when you were competitive. But um, uh, I just try to love life the best I can.

yeah, and and again, we, uh, we acknowledge deeply here. I'm I. I teach acknowledgement. I don't say what I don't mean. But from the minute you walked into this room with your lovely wife, um, you just felt so warm, welcoming, so real, so authentic, and it's refreshing. I've, I've met a lot of people and had a lot of the privilege of that. Um, but you feel, Mr. Wilkins, so grounded, like, so clear on who you are and how the world works.

It's it's inspiring to me. I'm, I think I'm well, a pretty grounded

thank you.

person, and and I, I love people a lot. And I'm like, if I were in your shoes in some of these situations, which on a much smaller level than you in in the public guy. I've been, and I haven't been as gracious as you, and I'm a pretty gracious person. So thank you for inspiring me and the folks out there to be so loving and so gracious,

you know. I want the smallest,

so elevating it.

from the smallest to the biggest person, to feel comfortable and loved and wanted or embraced. I should say around me, because, you know, I don't want everyone. People feel threatened, you know, or feel like that I'm untouchable. And that's why I never believed in superior around me my whole career. And that's why I've always been a guy who could stand on his own and make his own decisions. And a lot of times, people looked at that like, looked at me like it was crazy.

I said, But you know what, I'm still standing, so it must have worked out pretty good.

And and I think, too, that so many athletes, um, you know, we had the privilege of interviewing Dwight Gooden on this pod. A huge Met fan. I was there at Game Six in 1986 and Mookie Wilson. And you know, I love people, and you know, a lot of my, I'm a jet fan. Poor me. But I had the privilege of speaking to, you know, a lot of these folks and so many folks. Whether their career ends in high school, with friends that you hang in, or college, that's where mine ended, or professionally, a lot of folks don't make that transition from, you know, whatever start that they had, whether it's high school, college, pros, right into life after success.

And you've done that and so few people do, and you've done it in business, you've done it being vice president of Basketball of the Hawks as an analyst. And what helped you make that transition? Do you think, and so many people don't?

Well, from that guy, playground legend who taught me how to play the game to people like Ted Turner, has taught me a lot. You know about life, about business, and just about interacting with people. So I've had some really cool people in my journey to get to this point. But, you know, when it's a part of you, when it's a part of your life, rihanna it's not hard, it's not hard, and it's never been hard for me to connect to people.

But what I did before I retired, I started saying, Okay, now, what do you want to do after basketball? And I said to myself, Well, I probably want to be involved with the Atlanta Hawks in some form or fashion. They always told me, whenever you retire, you're gonna always have a position here. And so I started thinking about the executive side of basketball, probably about five years before I retired. And so I kinda prepared myself for life after basketball.

Because I tell these young people you can't do this forever, you know, you gotta prepare, because basketball. The short period in your life, in your career, it's a short period, believe it or not, and so you gotta find something else to get you the same type of satisfaction for a long, a length of time.

Yeah, no, for sure. And um, you know, Darren Prince, thank you. Amen. High Foundation. That's how we've connected and his friend and partner, James Amo Amarozi. He says, when he's ever been in any place in Atlanta with you or in the building, it's you are just royalty. You know, walking around and how? How? How do you navigate all of the people that approach you that have things they want from you? And, you know, and and filter through all the opportunities, all the words, and how do you do all that?

well, when you're when you're a person who gives your time to everybody, the times you get taken advantage of, you do and you make mistakes. It's, but it's what you learn from those mistakes. But it doesn't change me as a person because I again, I want people to feel like they can stay connected to me and be a part of my life. But at the same time, you know, as you grow, you know the people who are not there for you.

And so I tried to separate myself from that without letting people that I am close to, or people I do admire, be hurt by it. So I've been very fortunate to, like I said, to understand who's out there is really for you and who is not. And I know we both been through those things. But again, if people ask me, if you had to do it all over again, would you change? I'm like, I wouldn't change a thing, but it made me who I am today by going through a lot of those.

Yeah, well, thank you for that. And so fun moments in the career, moments that you look back on, oh man, some of your personal favorite moments, uh, playing in your career, uh, what were a couple of those?

well, high school and college was great. I mean, I had so many great stories. But that's of late. That I can go back, cause, you know, I'm getting older, guy, I can't go back too far, you know? But, uh, if you look at the NBA and the era that I played in,

can I ask this? Do you more fondly think of high school, college or the NBA? If we could start there, like, when, if you well, honestly, when you're just like if for going to sleep at me, if I, night,

if I finally think of high school, that's that, uh, cause high like, I, school,

I love you, I do, too, for everything in my life. It's like my favorite Prince

now why? record. Please, Cause you're not tainted, you know? There's no money, there's none of that, but competing love and respect for the guys you go into war with every day. I mean, so it, it's. It's more fun because you know you're green, you, I mean, what you don't, you don't know much at that age, but one thing you do know is competing. And especially when you got 1314 guys have the same vision that you have.

And my high school team, man, we were, we were unbelievable. And what You believe

was your high school? The name of your high?

Washington High School in Washington, North Carolina, And a little small what was the and country town,

what was your nickname? like? what was the your

nickname was the Washington Panhandle. I mean,

pan pack? uh, what? Okay, We were the Cavs?

let me explain it to you. So

No, no, we both have. We were the Cavos. I didn't know like nobody knows what a cavo is either, so it's so funny,

nobody knew what a pan like pack was, but you know what pan pack we're the pan is? packing cavos, and nobody Yeah,

knows what those things are.

no, it was a pan, like a packing company, so they shortened up to pan pack, you know, but uh, yeah. But they we were a household name in North Carolina and that team was really, really I'm sure good, you know? And one game we lost a team that, um, we beat by 30 in the regular season and they beat us by one point on a buzzer shot. And coach told us, he said, If you guys stick with us for two more years, we won't lose another game.

And we like, Yeah, all right, yeah, sure, coach. But he was right. We ran off 56 in a row in two years. Yeah,

so I get that. So high school, check, amazing. How about a couple fun moments from the NBA? That really well, well, you enjoy thinking,

I think the fun moments for me is playing against some of the greatest players that ever played this game. Magic Johnson, so they came Larry Bird,

right, so just context, cause this guy for for folks w watching 79, um, uh, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson's oh man, podcast, 82, Don Wilkins, I think it's 84, Michael Jordan, right? Okay, so please continue.

we were. We were right behind one another and my 1st experience is, you know, I'll just give you a short version of this Larry Bird story. I'm a whoopee, I'm in Boston driving, I'm excited and it's Mr. Mystique, the jerseys, and I go shake his hand. He put both hands behind his back. I'm like, Well, maybe he just getting into the game, so I'm guarding him 1st play of the game, he says, I don't know why they got you guarding me, Holmes, and he hit a three and I went mad.

I said, Well, this is someone who gonna just call me Holmes. I was mad and so I came down and I had a play on the way. Where I was on the break and I dunked on him and he on the ground. And I'm, and I'm, you know, excited. And he said, Hey, Ro, he said, I like you, but I'm still getting 40 on you tonight. He, he, but I think he got 38. So I wasn't upset because back then you had to pay your dues.

That's the only time Larry ever talked trash to me because he knew that I was gonna keep coming. I wasn't a guy that talked a lot of trash. I just played. And it's funny because we didn't shake hands for 13 years. But we're very close friends to that. I love Larry, I mean, we have a very special friendship. And And you put uh, yeah,

47 on him in Game seven, right? 47

yeah, yeah, but he had 24 in the 4th quarter.

Did he really?

Yeah, he had 12 points going into the 4th quarter, he ended up with, uh, 34, 36, something like that. Yeah, yeah, Like this is bad man,

the golden era of the NBA. Period, I don't care what anybody says, like that you don't get time.

no arguments out of me. In me, you know, I just give you this. One thing if you look at by positions, everything is positionless basketball hybrid type. My 1st eight games I played against probably nine Hall of Famers at my position. Larry Bird, 6'10, Dr. J, Bernard King, English, Danley, Aguirre, Nance. Um, just to name a few. Every night and all of them were averaging over 25 a game. And I remember saying to myself, Man, if it's gonna be like this every night, I don't know if I'm gonna make it, you know?

But I had to quickly say, you know, I know I'm playing against these god like players, but I'm gonna let them know they playing against a god too. And so I had to have that attitude, cause then you get embarrassed every night. So once I got to that point, I was good.

that is unbelievable. So as we draw towards a conclusion for today, where do you go from here? Mr. Wilkins? You had this incredible career resiliency injuries. Gold medal, right for our country. Thank you for that. Muhammad Ali lights the torch 1996 in your home state of Georgia, right? With the Hawks, like from your Hawks land, right? Not home state growing up, but the state that you played in Georgia and winning the gold medal there. If you tell me what was that like, and where does everything go well, Atlanta from here?

became home to me, even though I'm not from Atlanta, I'm from Atlanta. Because that was the 1st city that ever called me their home. That was the 1st city that I felt like it was home. And so, and I said, all the time, I'm not leaving there because of the way I was treated from day one. And so outside of basketball, I'm involved in a lot of different things and charitable stuff. Like, I'm very passionate about people who live on the spectrum.

Sensory needs. My wife and I we've created, along with another foundation that I started with, I've been their chairman for ten years. The Pope of City, we have our own sensory studio. Dealing with people on the spectrum to help them families navigate through their life, how to deal with people who live with special needs.

Yeah, well, that is a beautiful, powerful thing. And um, I look forward to seeing what we can co create in that space and be supportive of that cause with you. I'm deeply inspired by ZEphul. Don't, you know, see? It's not final, final if you were to some. Some people don't think about legacy, some people do, whether you call it legacy, calling, remembered lessons of your life. Yeah, hopefully it's 100 years from now when you finally transition to a different place.

What do you hope that your life would have stood for, that legacy?

no. I would hope that people recognize that how hard I worked on and off the court and never made excuses, never blamed anyone. And want my kids to know who their father really was, not just athletically and Hall of Fame and all that stuff, but who he was as a man. And realize that I never asked for anything, but I always gave it everything.

Yeah, uh, certainly, that shows up even in this moment. Mr. Dominique Wilkins, I'm immensely grateful. I'm inspired by your mastery, your grace, your accomplishments, your elegance, your forgiveness, you know, for people. And I'm taking away a lot and I hope you are too, and thank thank you man, you. Shout out to you for appreciate you man, this, really, appreciate it, thank thank you so you, thank much, really appreciate

you so much man.

that. Yep, I'm gonna grow a little bit more, I think,

Oh yeah yeah right, well, yeah, man, thank you thank you, so much man.

thank you.