Topic
20 facts from 2 episodes, in date order. These are what speakers said on the shows, each linked to the moment it was said. They aren't independently verified.
2004
Chris Voss said that around 2004 Al Qaeda reliably killed hostages when its deadlines passed, so negotiators had to treat those deadlines as real.
“And Al Qaeda in 2004's timeframe was very clear about killing people on deadline, and we had to recognize that.”
Undated
Chris Voss says his entrepreneur father had him and his sister tear down the family's old garage with crowbars when he was about eleven.
“he handed me and my thirteen-year-old sister crowbars and said, Go out and tear down the old garage.”
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Chris Voss volunteered on a suicide hotline for three years, later joining its board and teaching there.
“I actually volunteered there for a total of three years, and then I got involved in the board and the funding and the operation, and I taught there too”
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Voss learned the 'drama triangle' of victim, protector and persecutor on the hotline, where callers posing as victims lure helpers into giving advice and then attack it.
“the victim, uh, the protector, and the persecutor, and someone who comes on a hotline really portraying themselves as a victim.”
Undated
A mirror by Voss caused the lead robber to reveal a getaway driver, which later helped convict the driver.
“This ends up convicting his getaway driver, who had gotten away, and we didn't even know there was a third guy.”
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Voss says hostage negotiators succeed about 93% of the time.
“So the other thing, too, is hostage negotiators are successful 93% of the time, which is one of the things that I learned in the business, which means 7% of the time, they just ain't coming out.”
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Voss says hostage takers often end up in later sieges, so negotiators deal with the same people again and honesty matters.
“the crazy thing is hostage negotiators have repeat customers. If I get you out alive, the chances of, um, you straightening out your life are not great”
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Voss says he interviewed Mark Cuban, who agreed that hearing out a counterpart on the first deal speeds up later deals.
“I did an interview with Mark Cuban six or seven months ago, and I talked about listening.”
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Voss says humans fall into three natural types, which he describes as assertive, analytical and friendly, with each type tending to use a different voice.
“three natural types, um, in humans, fight, flight, or make friends”
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Voss cites brain-imaging experiments in which people shown upsetting photos and asked to label their feelings showed reduced activity in the relevant brain area.
“They put people in fMRIs, functional magnetic resonance imaging devices, where they can watch the brain light up.”
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Voss says an epiphany, which he links to a person saying 'that's right', releases oxytocin, a bonding chemical.
“And among the neurochemicals that you get a hit of in an epiphany is oxytocin, which is the bonding drug.”
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Voss defines the hostage-negotiator mirror as repeating the last one to three words of what someone said, and says the Black Swan Group teaches it verbally only.
“the Black Swan mirror, repeating just the last one to three words of what somebody said, or then taking surgically, picking a gist”
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Chris Voss said a young man named Jeff Schelling was seized by the Abu Sayyaf group in the Philippines and eventually walked away after negotiators stalled the kidnappers.
“young man named Jeff Schelling was grabbed by terrorist group, uh, Abu Sayyaf, and um, he ended up walking away.”
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In kidnapping negotiations, a 'double dip' is when captors take a ransom payment and then say it was only a down payment and demand more, according to Chris Voss.
“you always got to worry about what we used to refer to as a double dip.”
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Chris Voss said that negotiations end when the other side feels it has gotten everything it could, not when it actually has, so a negotiator's job is to help them feel that sooner.
“the other side is gonna give in when they feel like they've gotten everything they can”
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Chris Voss said that after talking to kidnappers for long enough, negotiators learn what a person sounds like when telling the truth, because people tend to tell the truth the same way each time.
“People lie 20 ways, they tell the truth one way. So we've been coaching in negotiations with the kidnappers long enough”
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Chris Voss advises firing someone on a Monday rather than a Friday so they have a work week to start recovering instead of a weekend of misery.
“never fire somebody on a Friday, fire them on a Monday”
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Chris Voss said the Harvard definition of empathy in negotiation meant showing understanding of the other side's perspective, not liking them.
“the Harvard definition, um, was empathy was not liking the other side, it was just demonstrating an understanding of their perspective.”
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Chris Voss estimated, in layman's terms, that the human survival brain is roughly 75 percent negative in its reactions.
“the survival brain is largely negative. Ballpark, I would say 75 negative.”
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Chris Voss cited the rough 7-38-55 rule, which splits communication into words, delivery and body language, and called it unscientific but a useful rule of thumb.
“There's a ratio out there that very unscientific. 738, 557 words, 38 delivery, 55 body language.”
Episodes