1970s
Esther Perel says women often lacked access to their own bank accounts until the 1970s, which raised the cost of infidelity for women.
“we're talking till the seventies, women didn't have access to their own bank accounts.”
Topic
Esther Perel
45 facts from 2 episodes, in date order. These are what speakers said on the shows, each linked to the moment it was said. They aren't independently verified.
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Esther Perel says she has worked as a psychotherapist for more than forty years.
“Yes, I I have been a psychotherapist for more than forty years.”
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Esther Perel says her book Mating in Captivity was written about seventeen years before this interview and still feels current.
“this book is seventeen years ago, it still, it lives, uh, uh, as if it was yesterday.”
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Esther Perel credits psychologist Pauline Boss with developing the term 'ambiguous loss', describing a person who is physically present but psychologically absent, or the reverse.
“ambiguous loss is a term that was developed by a colleague, Pauline Boss, a wonderful psychologist.”
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Esther Perel says the Gottmans call small everyday moments of connection 'bids for connection', and that turning toward or away from them shapes a relationship.
“it's the little things, it's the the difference between turning towards someone or turning away.”
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Esther Perel argues that this is the first time in history that a family's survival depends on the happiness of the couple.
“this is the first time in history that the survival of the family depends on the happiness of the couple.”
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Esther Perel says the idea of a 'soulmate' once belonged to the divine, not to a human partner.
“Soulmate used to be the realm of the divine, not a person.”
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Esther Perel says sexuality in the West shifted from marital duty, tied to children, to a matter of desire and pleasure.
“sexuality went through major transformations. It went from duty to desire.”
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Esther Perel says boys' socialization leaves many men with little emotional vocabulary by about age seven, though it does not remove their feelings.
“men are often, uh, emptied out from the vocabulary of emotions by age seven.”
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Esther Perel says about 97% of research on sexual desire concerns women, which she sees as reflecting a bias that men have no desire problems.
“I think it's about 97% of research on desire is about women.”
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Esther Perel lists three revolutions: contraception separated sex from reproduction, artificial conception separated reproduction from sex, and anatomy is now being separated from gender.
“we first separated sex from reproduction when we got contraception, then we re separated reproduction from sex when we got artificial ways to conceive, and now we are separated anatomy from gender.”
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Esther Perel says that among heterosexual couples aged 55 and up, sex most often stops because of the man, often due to medications for diabetes, blood pressure, prostate problems or depression.
“The vast majority of couples fifty five up that stop being sexual is actually because of the men in heterosexual couples.”
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Esther Perel says porn appeals to many men partly because it removes the fear of sexual rejection.
“She never says not now, she always says me too, more, more, more.”
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Esther Perel cites a figure of one in four women and one in six men having experienced unwanted sex, abuse or assault, which she links to shame around sexuality.
“one in four women and one in six men have experiences of unwanted sex or abuse or violation or assault”
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Esther Perel says she spent ten years studying affairs and infidelity before writing her book The State of Affairs.
“I put much of this in the state of affairs in the book because I had spent ten years studying affairs and infidelity.”
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Esther Perel says that, across many countries, the most common answer to when people feel most drawn to their partner is when they see the partner absorbed and competent in their own element.
“I'm most drawn to my partner when I see my partner in their element.”
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Esther Perel says the only gender-specific answer she hears about feeling drawn to a partner is women saying they feel it when he plays with the children.
“the only one, by the way, that is gender specific is when women say when he plays with the kids.”
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Esther Perel argues that unsupervised childhood play on the street taught social skills for conflict, which she says many children now miss.
“You had unchoreographed, unmonitored, unscripted free play with other kids with whom you learned friction, rubbing, fighting, making up, competing, collaborating”
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Esther Perel says couples' arguments are usually about three things: trust, recognition and control.
“Usually people fight for about three things. They fight for trust, they fight to feel like the other person has their back.”
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Esther Perel's online course 'Turning Conflict into Connection' is about one hour long, with eight videos and a workbook.
“It's a one hour course. It's very short. It's eight videos and a fantastic workbook.”
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Esther Perel says her father, who was illiterate and had attended school for three years, taught her to value people's decency over money, fame or education.
“my father, who was illiterate. Had gone to school for three years”
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Andrew Huberman introduces Esther Perel as the author of the best-selling books Mating in Captivity and The State of Affairs.
“She's also the author of best-selling books such as Mating in Captivity and The State of Affairs.”
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Andrew Huberman announces that Esther Perel has released a new course on intimacy.
“I'm also pleased to announce that Esther Perel has just released a new course on intimacy.”
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Esther Perel defines a cornerstone relationship as one formed in early adulthood in which partners build the foundation of their lives together.
“relationship is is where when we used to meet in our early twenties, and together we build the foundation of our relationship, we grew together”
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Esther Perel defines a capstone relationship as one formed roughly a decade after the early twenties, when each partner's identity is already established.
“Capstone is the foundation has already been established because we uh tend to meet at this point ten, twelve years later.”
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Esther Perel says relationships between older women and younger men are increasingly visible but have historically been rare in most cultures.
“and now we have more and more a new phenomenon of older women with younger men, but that's actually been very rare in most cultures.”
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Esther Perel says she has been a practicing couples therapist for almost forty years.
“I am a practicing couples therapist for almost forty years, and couples often come to therapy thinking that you're a drop-off center.”
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Esther Perel says people in the West now tend to have two or three relationships or marriages across adult life, sometimes with the same person.
“I think this moment we have two or three relationships or marriages in our adult life in the West, and some of us will do it with the same person”
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Esther Perel says that in Judaism a person apologizes three times, after which the burden of reconciliation passes to the person who refuses to accept it.
“Judaism, you apologize three times, and if after the third time, and you've done a real reckoning apology, if after three times, the other person does not accept it, the burden passes over to the other person.”
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Esther Perel says that accepting an apology does not mean forgiving, and that forgiveness is the hurt person's own freedom.
“And by the way, accepting the apology doesn't yet mean that you forgive. Forgive is your freedom.”
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Esther Perel cites therapist Terry Real's definition of self-esteem as seeing oneself as flawed while still holding oneself in high regard.
“because self esteem, as as my friend Terry Real says, is your ability to see yourself as a flawed individual and still hold yourself in high regard.”
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Esther Perel says she spent the previous year creating a course on turning conflict into connection.
“I spent last year creating a whole course on conflict, and how do you turn conflict into connection?”
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Esther Perel describes three major patterns of conflict: both partners attacking, both withdrawing, or one pursuing while the other withdraws.
“These are three types of major choreographies of conflict.”
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Esther Perel names fundamental attribution error as a common bias in which people explain their own behavior by circumstance and others' behavior by character.
“Another cognitive bias that is very common is, uh, is fundamental attribution error.”
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Esther Perel says she worked in an addiction center for two years.
“So I worked in an addiction center for for two years”
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Esther Perel says she is trained as a systemically oriented family therapist, which means looking at how different systems interact.
“I'm trained as a systemically oriented family therapist. And that means that you're looking at the interaction of different systems.”
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Esther Perel says that sexuality may be a parallel narrative to a relationship rather than a metaphor for it, because improving couples' relationships often changed nothing in the bedroom.
“maybe sexuality is not a metaphor of the relationship, maybe sexuality is a parallel narrative to the relationship.”
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Esther Perel says the idea that love and desire relate but also conflict was foundational to Mating in Captivity, her first book.
“That was one of the foundational ideas for mating in captivity, my first book.”
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Esther Perel cites psychologist Michael Bader's work on why some people find it hard to experience love and desire at the same time.
“Michael Bader's work, that makes it difficult for some people to experience love and desire at the same time.”
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Esther Perel says she wrote an entire book about infidelity, meaning what happens when desire goes looking elsewhere.
“I wrote an entire book about in about infidelity, as in what happens when desire goes looking elsewhere.”
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Esther Perel says she has seen a lot of infidelity in happy relationships and that it is not always a symptom of a flawed relationship.
“I have seen a lot of infidelity in happy relationships. It's not always a symptom of a flawed relationship”
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Esther Perel says a person's emotional history is inscribed in how they make love, which she uses to introduce the idea of an erotic blueprint.
“tell me how you were loved, and I will tell you how you make love.”
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Esther Perel describes herself as a child of survivors and says this shaped her interest in how people live fully rather than merely survive.
“a child of survivors I wanted to see people who how do they continue to live not just how do they stay alive”
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Esther Perel recommends a book about apology by Harriet Lerner.
“a beautiful book by Harriet Lerner about apology that I often recommend in these situations”
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Andrew Huberman says Esther Perel is on a live tour that is sold out.
“you're on a live tour now I can't wait to see this it's all sold out”
Episodes